LEAVERS - update on the 'invoke A50 now' petition. I have the reply.

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You’re receiving this email because you signed this petition: “Invoke Article 50 of The Lisbon Treaty immediately.”.

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Dear xxxxxx

The Government has responded to the petition you signed – “Invoke Article 50 of The Lisbon Treaty immediately.”.

Government responded:

The British people have voted to leave the EU and their will must be respected and delivered. We should not trigger Article 50 until we have a UK approach and objectives.

The British people have voted to leave the EU and their will must be respected and delivered. The process for leaving the EU and determining our future relationship will be a complex one, so we need to take time to think through our objectives and approach. We want to ensure the best possible outcome for Britain and the future UK-EU relationship. As part of this, the government will of course work closely with the devolved administrations to ensure we get the best deal for the UK as a whole. We should not trigger Article 50 until we have a UK approach and objectives, so Article 50 should not be invoked before the end of this year.

Department for Exiting the European Union

Click this link to view the response online:

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/133618?reveal_response=yes

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Thanks,
The Petitions team
UK Government and Parliament

You’re receiving this email because you signed this petition: “Invoke Article 50 of The Lisbon Treaty immediately.”.

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I actually found this Referendum outcome a wonderful opportunity to revise my English idiom vocabulary, and to expand it.

Throwing the baby out with the bathwater, Cut off your Nose to spite your Face, No point crying over spilt Milk, reap what you sow, reap the whirlwind, etc etc. English is such a wonderful language!

But I digress...as I said before I do feel extremely sorry for the young generation who in their vast majority didn't want this and will live with the consequences and lack of coherence for many years.
Unless by some miracle Westminster acknowledges the lunacy of invoking Article 50 and does something about it. Maybe our energies are better used in protesting, signing petitions, etc etc than trying to argue and push prejudiced Leavers to defend the indefensible though it is a great way to vent I grant you that!
We live in hope....

They'er good ones, Soy. Also hoist by his own petard. Applicable to Cameron and to Johnson.

They're

Thankyou Sapphire hadn't come across the petard one before.

I always imagined that a petard was to do with jousting, but it's not. It's a small bomb used to blow up fortifications. So you blow yourself up with it.

Yes I got it "petardo" in Spanish...see? lots more in common with our Eu cousins than that they would have you believe keeps us apart (but I am preaching to the converted I know...)

Don't forget pig in a poke

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piginnapoke

I've been using it TOO FUCKING MUCH since the vote.

Along with 'omnishambles' and 'clusterfuck'.

Yes that just about covers it.

Led Up the Garden Path The Shit has hit the Fan
Yes I have been swearing a lot more than usual too (bilingually of course).
Very therapeutic...

Sold a pup? Is that an American one?

And the one attributed to Shakespeare but not really his but Sir Walter Scott (now so popular it counts as an idiom right?)
Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive...

Sold a dummy I had heard before...Sold a pup is another one to add to my ever expanding vocabulary (even after decades I still learn every day)

Soy - "Anyone who persists in justifying their leave vote are xenophobic racists and you can't reason with prejudice - now can you".

So the rest of you, tell me why on earth I should bother having a debate with you when someone says that?

Corcory, that is one poster on a long thread. You could continue to converse with others.

Why the heck should I. What with Small fox and her goading and now this. Enjoy your idioms!

I can't see how smallfox has been goady.

And, I'll say it again, there are other posters to engage with if you don't want to talk to a couple.

I for one would welcome a sensible debate with Leave voters. It does seem, though, that any time some of them on here (inc you unfortunately) are pushed, the tendency is to bluster and/or flounce. Pity.

Oh really corcory

You're just looking for an excuse to not answer questions asked of you.

It is, what has come to be, classic Leave voter behaviour.

I've been asking you for weeks what you voted for and you've yet to actually answer what should be a very simple question.

Sincere apologies Corcory if I have offended you.
But if you walked in my shoes you would understand why I am highly sceptical when someone says to me they are not xenophobic/racist yet the only justification they give for voting Leave is to stop "uncontrolled immigration" when it is by now patently clear and proven that Eu free movement benefits and contributes more to the UK well being and economy than it takes away. Not to mention the benefits to the huge British community working and living in the Eu.
And you deny there were promises that were made to the electorate by the Leave campaign despite patent proof to the contrary. Maybe you are in denial, or your perception of events that transpired post Brexit vote is so radically different from mine that we cannot understand each other.

But please don't mind me... I will bow out and keep an eye on the thread, and would of course be very interested to read and understand your reasons for standing by your Leave vote.

I meant to say your reasons to vote Leave other than "uncontrolled immigration"

Corcoran others have responded far more eloquently to the post you wrote earlier. I live in a remain area and have mainly remain friends the only leave voters I have met online were slogan brandishing leave voters. The worst are outrightly xenophobic, hate-crime-rise-denying kippers. I genuinely want to understand a more moderate leave view.

The analogy to me is that some people have convinced you to knock down your house of 40 years and rebuild it. The principal people behind the scene have resigned or been moved aside and you've agreed to do it despite there not being a clear plan what the house will look like afterwards. Numbers given to you about the cost have been disproven. Others have warned the house you get once the rebuild is done will be significantly smaller than the one you have already. Experts have said it is a bad idea. This is the house your children will grow up in. Almost 2 months after agreeing to let people demolish your house there still is no plan for what it will look like and you are utterly sanguine and say you will leave it to the team of builders, you're fine they're on holiday, you like that the team is headed by a woman who originally advised you not to rebuild the house and you're still unshakeable in your conviction this is the right thing to do.

I don't think it's unreasonable for those of us who voted remain to look on and wonder why you're not panicking and so willing to put your faith in politicians who have shown time and again they have lied or promised to deliver something they can't. We as mothers are voting for our children's future as much as our own.

You say you have listened and read the arguments - the OP wanted to trigger article 50 immediately - is that your also view? Are you not concerned with the gargantuan task of undoing 40 years worth of law that is embedded in UK law? Of trying to negotiate WTO membership? Of negotiating our exit deal where we are the weaker partner? Of trying to negotiate 57 trade deals to replace those that the EU has with other countries?

Some leavers want access to the single market, some don't want anything to do with the EU, some want a free trade paradise others are protectionist.

We remain voters did know what we voted for because whilst Brexit means Brexit means Jackshit, remain does mean remain.

Yes Soy - That was the point I find the whole EU only freedom of movement thing racist in that it tends to exclude most other ethnicities apart from white.
Oh right Sapphire - how small thinks it's just fine to tell people to suck it up and liken them to Turkeys waiting for Christmas and that everything we say is sooo funny. I could go on and on if I looked back at all the threads. But of course she has a PHD in Economics so doesn't have to give me any facts when I ask for them!
And then we've got Bearbehind - classic leave behaviour, just an excuse to not answer questions asked of you. I and several other leave supporters have told you some of the reasons we voted leave but all you do is tell us we are just giving you a wish list or we haven't given you an actual fact! On and on and on you go Bear. How the H- - - are we supposed to give you facts it hasn't happened yet.
God, you'd think it was F - - -ing the Spanish inquisition. I'm not on trial here you know.

But you haven't told us corcory

The most I've ever seen you say is to stop uncontrolled immigration.

You've never even enlightened us with how you equated voting Leave with improving controls over immigration.

tootireds house analogy is very apt yet you opt, as ever, to completely ignore it.

I know you are never going to answer the question but it really annoys me you insist on defending your choice without backing it up.

Corcory, smallfox made counter-arguments for the things she said that you cite here.

Leave voters have told us why you voted thus, yes, but no one, despite being asked repeatedly, has been able to answer what it is they voted FOR – what they actually want/expect/hope Brexit will look like. Which is what I'm curious about, and which I can only surmise from this and other threads others are curious about too. I would like to understand.

Remain voters have given many facts and figures supporting the argument that we are better off in the EU; while I appreciate that you can't give facts on something that hasn't happened yet, I would be interested in counter-evidence supporting an argument that EU membership is detrimental to the UK.

No one is on trial. People just want a reasoned debate with clear supporting evidence to back up arguments.