To feel really positive about leaving the EU... Continued

[Valentine2]

Hi all. I learnt excellent things on the last one. Please keep them coming. Xxx

[UnderTheGreenwoodTree]

No, anyone with the nuke is a nuclear power. We have it.

[LucyBabs]

It's sad really, the British education system hasn't served most British people, so many didn't even know what the EU was.

[UnderTheGreenwoodTree]

Seriously, check out the real facts here - it documented and all sorts. There's a name for it...... ooh what is it now...?

[UnderTheGreenwoodTree]

Well, no, we can't agree - because you said the UK was not a nuclear power any more - well, it really is. There is no disputing that, even if Putin has bigger, we are still a nuclear power. It's documented. I fear you've spent too much time with the Leave campaigners - you know, pesky facts don't matter?!

[whatwouldrondo]

We it is not worth trying to make logical points, like it does not really matter about the Maths if you are all dead, and I was talking about the Little England mentality of some Leave voters not a reasonable proportion of the remain voters as well as overseas governments who from China to Korea to the US (apart from Trump) to South America and Africa who understood that the EU played a useful role in the world and wanted the UK in it as part of the real world, but just for clarification the Chinese stranglehold is not on concrete [confised] but on the raw materials for the high tech industries www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/rare-earth-metals-upgrade-recycle-ethical-china

[UnderTheGreenwoodTree]

It's a distraction technique, yes? If we argue about whether we even have nuclear weapons, distracts from the real issue?

[Valentine2]

bengal
You do sound a bit like Trump. I was a bit stunned to finally understand what you actually meant.
greenwood and whatwouldrondo salutes to your perseverance.
lucybabs strange that just now me and DH were discussing it all and he said something along the lines about the British education system needing serious investment. He also had an extra bit to add that one previous poster here said too (it was whatwouldrondo I think?): when you look at the British students generally and compare them to the rest of the world, the sense of entitlement is staggering. I agree.

[Valentine2]

"The person with the biggest nuke is the nuclear power"
THIS.GEM.

[Peregrina]

Valentine - education, education, education has always been the answer - to almost every question. Including "what to do about terrorism?' The answer, Education.

Education alone won't save us. Germany at the turn of the 20th Century was one of the better educated nations in Europe - and they descended into barbarism. I would hope that we have learnt from that.

What would save us? A realisation that co-operation is often better than competition, and a more equitable distribution of wealth......

[whatwouldrondo]

Valentine I should not take the rise, but was the problem with Bengal's logic down to education, or something else

However I think that there is a general sense of entitlement amongst the British population and in the US. It was exploited by the Trump speech last night, just as it was by the leave campaign here, to incite xenophobia and division. I am afraid Pellegrina that Britain and the US are following Russia and China away from the way leaders like Clinton, Obama, Blair (though it went disastrously wrong in the execution) tried to focus people on cooperation and greater fairness to something darker altogether. If after this vote we wake up to a Trump victory too - and it is just as much of a possibility as the 52% seemed a few months before, then how can anyone feel positive?

If anything I think students and the younger generation, with obvious exceptions, are the best hope. They work harder than they ever had to before to get to university and once they get there. They study alongside some of the best from the rest of the world and in institutions that are very much focused globally. They voted remain by quite some margin. I find it really quite puzzling the way this government have turned it's back on the millennials, it seems like a massive blind spot, this group of young people who on top of taking , along with the poorest, an unfair share of austerity now will have to try and make their way through the Brexit mess. It seems ike this could be part of the impetus behind a move to create something that offers options for a greater centre left focus on fairness (although also they are signing up for Corbyn in large numbers too)

[MammouthTask]

You lot are posting at stupid hours!

The nuclear powers, this is actually a really big issue for the EU. Only two countries have nuclear power, the U.K. And France.
Loosing the uk is an issue for the eu (remember the wish of some countries to move towards a more unified defence system). The U.K. actually has that under its sleeve fur the future negotiations.
It also seems that France has started to say that being the only one with nuclear weapons, it will need help.

[MammouthTask]

Bengal I fully agree with all the points you have raised. We need to address the issue of the environment etc etc.
But fur me, that's what the EU could help with because there is no way one country can make a real difference on its own (starting with the fact that producing products that also protect the environment, eg different production methods, is also more expensive. Having everyone agreeing about these methods means you are not competing with similar products that are much cheaper).
To go further, these are issues that should be solved at a world level and again one small country is less likely to be listened too, has less leverage than a bigger 'thing' such as the EU.
Last thing, I don't think that any of these concerns are reserved to the millennia. We should all be concerned about it.

[Valentine2]

bengalcat
Are you BoJo?