To feel really positive about leaving the EU... Continued

[Valentine2]

Hi all. I learnt excellent things on the last one. Please keep them coming. Xxx

[SwedishEdith]

I will just vote green next election.

There was no Green candidate in my constituency at the last election.

[UnderTheGreenwoodTree]

I dunno - don't you think a strong political European alliance would help a bit?? Rather than all fragmented and in economical turmoil?

Didn't you notice Putin rubbing his hands with glee at the thought of us leaving the EU, did you consider what this means?

[UnderTheGreenwoodTree]

If Putin wants to take over the planet, he can.

Oh my god, really? Dear god. That's actually ok with you? He's not going to go against a strong Europe, just a weakened one.

[whatwouldrondo]

I am turning into Victor Meldrew, seriously, I do not believe this

1. Boris is a good choice for FS - a feminist view? Apparently that come hither look has fooled a fair few women, not sure it works on other Foregn secretaries of either sex. Personally I think he just perfected the same sad child look of many a hyperactive child, to disguise that he is clever, easily bored so needs to play games, and an entirely self serving sociopath, fine for getting sex but not exerting influence for good in the world. Especially with Putin who is trying to prove what a big dick he has and Xi who likes to think he has all that dangerous male and female yin and yang in perfect harmony in the cause of harmony and pragmatism
   

1. Sanctions against Putin were another part of the EU plot to take control. Honestly words fail me but try googling appeasement......

[Valentine2]

whatwould
Oh you have such an accurate description of BoJo! I am copying it. I will keep looking at it. I learnt a lot from you all here.

[UnderTheGreenwoodTree]

No he couldn't - Bengal. We were strong - he wouldn't have a chance against Europe.

The problem is - we don't know how Brexit will play out - but Putin wants it - that should tell you something. Europe will be weakened - not good, to put it mildly.

[Valentine2]

bengalcat
But you do care about a weak Britain or a strong Britain? If,as numerous posters here have shown studies/data to prove that leaving EU is making us weaker, will you still not care?
I will shudder to side with the likes of Putin/Farage/Trump. Don't you think that If arses like these applaud Leave,there is something seriously wrong with it even if you don't agree or accept the other studies and data?

[UnderTheGreenwoodTree]

We have plenty crazy nukes of own - ever watched a film called the "war book"?

Don't. I couldn't sleep afterwards.

[Valentine2]

begalcat
I am talking about all the discussion on this and the last thread that showed how we will be weaker without EU.

[UnderTheGreenwoodTree]

Bengal, you are so sadly mistaken, I'm almost sorry for you.

We have an army that the US are almost embarrassed to go to war with. We have depleted our army massively - did you not read the press at the time? Swathes of our military forces were made redundant.

However, we have just voted to renew trident. Yay.

So we are still a nuclear might. Again, look up war book, but don't if you want to sleep at night. Our government are prepared to use these weapons.

I was 13 when the Russian near miss of 1984 happened, it's little known, but worth knowing. www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24280831

[Valentine2]

Sorry posted too soon. About Tony Blair : yes he is supporting it too but that's your lot and responsibility to pick good and bad information and separate them. And then vote. If one side is crowded by an overweming number of cockwkmbles, I would be very wary of going over there and vote with them.

[UnderTheGreenwoodTree]

We've just voted to renew trident - did you think we let it go out of date and then think about it??

We are one the world's nuclear powers. Fucking hell.

Now - click on my fucking BBC link and read about Petrov - seriously. Jesus. This man deserves that we know how we came.

[UnderTheGreenwoodTree]

*how close we came.

[UnderTheGreenwoodTree]

Sorry, but fucking hell. This should never have gone to referendum. We have people here not knowing we are a nuclear power. FFS.

[GarlicStake]

I'm really glad the conversation's turned to defence. The reason the European Union was founded was to stop the European countries fighting one another and starting world wars. It has worked.

All the economic & cultural teamwork is fantastic for everyone involved - and it is a spin-off from the core intent: a united & powerful Europe that can fend off attack and keep the peace within itself. Money and diplomacy are also weapons.

Food security's a crucial part of any defence strategy. Look at how many wars in the past were won simply by cutting off an enemy's food supply. Look at how the Germans laid waste to Russian land as they passed through, to make their enemy weak. There are parts of England that are still infertile, hundreds of years after the soil was salted to subdue (starve to death) an uprising.

If you can't imagine food insecurity or how quickly it takes hold, go and look at some news clips from Venezuela this month. The whole point of the common agricultural policy is that it creates a vast farming co-operative, featuring all types of terrain, climate and skills. It's really carefully balanced (following some cock-ups 40 years ago) to ensure that all the food's available to all the people.

The UK doesn't have the capacity for food sufficiency, nor the climate.

Environment is now an essential part of defence strategy because of the way it feeds into food & economic strength.

Military strength itself is supposed to be co-ordinated and balanced throughout the EU, in a similar way. It isn't quite, because of individual nations needing to think about what happens if internal fighting breaks out after all, but it does exist. I'd rather be on the big guy's team than outside on my own.

Tbh I would put up with a great deal more bureaucracy if it were necessary to maintain such a powerful and carefully balanced co-operative. Still can't quite believe we're quitting.

I do, though, understand how very far from everyday life these concerns can seem. That's complacency - these concerns underpin everyone's life, whether they're currently living in peace or at war. Those bureaucrats, for all their many faults, never forget it.

[GarlicStake]

Greenwood ... :(

[UnderTheGreenwoodTree]

Seriously, read about Petrov He may just have saved all our lives and we didn't even know it. I was 13 at the time. I believe I watched 'Threads' soon after that and it scared the living hell out of me.

There are experts "those damn experts' around that believe we are more at more at risk of nuclear war now than during the cold war - even though many think that the end of the cold war meant the end of risk of nuclear war.