To feel really positive about leaving the EU... Continued

[Valentine2]

Hi all. I learnt excellent things on the last one. Please keep them coming. Xxx

[Valentine2]

greenwood
Yes fucking hell. I have read one news story right after the referendum result that said this man somewhere in London actually believed the island could physically sink due to the weight of all the immigrants coming here. Reporter asked him again because it sounded utter bonkers. The guy confirmed.
Statistically speaking, we have a large number of such people here now. we need a war like investment in education now.

[UnderTheGreenwoodTree]

Excellent, excellent post, garlic.

And indeed. I can't escape the

[UnderTheGreenwoodTree]

Valentine - education, education, education has always been the answer - to almost every question. Including "what to do about terrorism?' The answer, Education.

[whatwouldrondo]

Bengal I am sorry but those of us who grew up with the aftermath of Hiroshima and the Cold War and the very very real possibility of a 4 minute warning of death, and planned what we would do, which actually by 1984 had receded a bit in the consciousness with a softening of Russian rhetoric that preceded Grobechev, understand that the whole point of deterrent is that whether you wipe out the main cities or entire continents isn't the point of deterrent, nobody is going to press the button knowing the other is inevitable for them . Not even Putin. The issue is feeling free to shoot down planes full of innocent passengers as collateral damage in a game of dare trying to regain your sphere of influence. I suppose if you really subscribe to conspiracy theories that the EU would, despite its basic value system, force independent investigators to misrepresent evidence then yes you will feel you are regaining sovreignty I am sure also there was no conspiracy between the Russian Ministry of Sport and sportsmen for widespread doping, and that accusation too is yet more of an EU conspiracy. There is clearly no context at all for a belief that nationalism and corruption in Rusdia are an issue along with the Brexit unicorns coming out to play so yes in that context a Brexit vote is entirely rational

[Valentine2]

garlic
We have never been able to reach this point so far. The point we start discussing the human side of it all. thats brilliant discussion you did there

[UnderTheGreenwoodTree]

Bengal, are you actually claiming knowledge here? When you just claimed we were not a nuclear power?

[Valentine2]

greenwood
Sorry if you are about to write on terrorism a bit more. But here is my two pence into that: I feel that once you have a global village instead of a world, you will have far more interaction with other human beings (never mind the medium: Internet, easy travel, media advances, etc) and it's going to bring the best out in humans. Crime rates are falling generally. Establishments find is harder to suppress the flow of information. I feel more at home with lots of my EU friends than from my childhood mainly because I can see their everyday lives and interests and aims on Facebook!
So in this closely knit world, I believe every single war act is going to bring about bigger consequences probably. The only major war I have see is the Iraq war and the Afghanistan one. I believe in karma too. We are connected via land to the rest of the the world and it was all bound to filter into our country at some point. In the form of refugees. It's the only logical thing to do: you get the hell out of Iraq / Syria and I where? Eventually you will reach Europe. That's where the jobs are and the money and peace too. It is so simple that I really feel someone should put Blair behind bars just for not understanding this tiny little principle.

[UnderTheGreenwoodTree]

Bengal, are you having a laugh? Not a very funny one, admittedly.

[Valentine2]

bengal
What's bronze silver gold? Can you pls elaborate a bit?

[UnderTheGreenwoodTree]

It's bengal's opinion that we are not a nuclear power, valentine.

But we are a nuclear power, always have been practically since the whole lot started off - make of that what you will.

[UnderTheGreenwoodTree]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_with_nuclear_weapons

OH look - there we are - listed in the countries that have nuclear weapons. Yup, we're there all right. Like I needed to prove it

[UnderTheGreenwoodTree]

Bengal - you stated we were not a nuclear power - that was blatantly untrue like most, or all of your posts

[UnderTheGreenwoodTree]

Oh my god.

[whatwouldrondo]

Bengal Well if you stray back into true Brexit territory, the over 60s as opposed to those of us hiding under the bed through the Bay of Pigs crisis then you are talking about those who grew up with an atlas that was still largely coloured pink with all the reluctant, revolting even, colonies seeking independence that enabled a post war recovery and to say that in the 60s that we never "had it so good" and had exciting reading books called "Little Black Sambo" as well as that Edwardian hyperbole "this island story" most beloved of Tory MPs. The reality, as opposed to the rose tinted specs that influenced this vote is that it was far from fine, by the 1970s it was all a bit grim, deserted by empire, in recession, inequality widening, Maggie killing off the industrial base in the cause of the free market and preparing us to be a service economy and buying in to the EU as away to make that work. And it does, generating £16. 6bn the economy..... not the EUs fault that has not benefitted the whole country. I didn't see anything in your plans that would make up for the risk to that £16.6bn of Brexit or actually match the Chinese strategy of getting ahead of us on technology AND achieving a monopoly on the raw materials needed, metals, radioactive materials etc. It goes without saying they have a much bigger pool of talent too. AND I am not talking down UK talent, it is just they don't feel very valued at the moment.....

[UnderTheGreenwoodTree]

Can someone please just assure me that Bengal will never be in charge of anything.

[whatwouldrondo]

Gosh Benghal Exactly how do league tables of nuke values matter if even if you are only at Bronze then you can still kill millions of people. OK in retaliation the other side kills £10million and you get a nuclear winter and everyone else does. So the whole point of the word deterrent is that nobody in their right mind, and whilst Putin has his issues he is not self destructive, is going to go there. The worry is the ones not necessarily given to thinking of their own men, let alone their fellow men, ISIS, Kim Jong Un

[UnderTheGreenwoodTree]

Btw I've not looked this up - it's pretty much from memory of growing up in the cold war - but the russians always more nukes than us. Reagan tried for Star wards etc. But when it comes down to it, it matters not. An exchange will do for us all. Pretty much.

[UnderTheGreenwoodTree]

OMG - someone on the internet who won't admit they were wrong - you practically lol'd and said we weren't a nuclear power Bengal. You were wrong.