A thread for Leave voters to list the positives of leaving the EU

[Bearbehind]

Seeing as the previous thread is nearly full and no one on it has given us a single tangible positive that we can expect from leaving the EU as opposed to staying I thought I'd start a shiny new thread with a thousand opportunities.

You are still not getting the point I am trying to make. The whole issue with threads like this is that twisting things is all people do...

You have seen it clearly where I have done it, but can you not see where you and others have also done it...

My only response would be that I voted Leave because I couldn't see any real benefit to staying, still can't.

But I know that won't satisfy you, though your version was supposed to satisfy me! You see the self evident truth in your version and the utterly deluded lie in mine.

All I am saying is that any Leaver would agree with my version and think you are the deluded one. It's not rocket science, it is a clear polemic.

Globetrotter do you mean political personages lie/reason or an individual's personal belief? I agree that all the political crap was a total lie... on both sides. They all lied.

Your question can still be asked of Leavers... I have asked it, one person has responded: why did you vote to remain?

Sorry but not one leaver has come up with a credible reason for voting out that stands up to factual scrutiny. Remainers have been genuinely asking. Some for weeks. So far the most truthful response from another thread was that it was a gamble, 'a roll of the dice'. Now whilst I actually have respect for the poster's honesty, you surely cannot expect people who woke up and realised they would soon no longer be EU citizens, their house would lose its value, their currency would be devalued, their universities would lose money, their jobs and businesses could be at risk, their children would not be able to study abroad, to say 'Oh that's ok then? No good reason?Just a feeling that things will be better? An emotion. Ok. Thanks great??!'

The fact that leavers are actually suprised at how upset some remainers are is in itself quite incredulous. Did you really think that voting for the consequences of all the above would just be placidly embraced and we'd all go along to the metaphorical pub for a drink and a gabble?

Credible reasons that were not based on 1. sticking two fingers up to the Tories, 2. misinformation, 3. bigotry, 4. Fond memories of the empire, simply have not been put forward. That is not the fault of remainers! To make a decision that would have such wide sweeping negative effects on the very infrastucture of our country and not be able to provide sufficient justification, based upon factual evidence is utterly ridiculous. And you have nothing to stand on.

Yes, and all of that as been said over and over and over again. If there weren't a personal decision, gut feeling, emotional aspect to voting choices why is your post so full of emotive rhetoric?

Tell me, why did you vote remain?

FFS of course it's different voting to maintain the status quo as opposed to voting to jump of a fucking cliff.

If you saw no benefit in staying, what did you think would change for the better by leaving?

By definition, if you didn't see the point in staying you accept things would be different by leaving- what do you believe will be better out of the EU than in it?

And don't peddle the lie that jobs, schools, education, house prices, etc, all rely on us being in the EU! That doesn't stand up to factual scrutiny!

Some of your points are valid OurBlanche. No, it's not good business to rely on one source of funding, but our own governments have not shown any great committment to funding research.

Cameron's immigration targets were not realistic, yes. But many people did vote on an anti-immigration ticket, so if anything that played to the Leave camp.

The Peace process in NI is fragile, yes, so do we fan the flames or try to find ways to reconcile the two sides?

Here goes Peregrina - First of all you seem to have listened to all the dome Sayers. Where does it say that we, asa nation can't finance scientific research or anything else the EU has been funding out of our own money.
No one from the government as said that all the current funding will stop when we leave the EU. Give them a chance, there will be announcements soon.
I agree with you about the Northern Ireland problem, that's something that worries me.
Why do we have to be in the EU just in the hope that we can influence what is happening - we haven't done that well doing that so far. Any laws we would have to abide by would only be ones to do with regulations about goods and services we would sell to the EU.
Twofingers - I really think that environmental things have changed significantly over the last 20 or 30 years for the better and the EU has definitely played a big part in that. However I'm not so sure that because of the increase in awareness of the environment and loads of campaigning by pressure groups that wouldn't have changed anyway.
One thing I would say is that I would much rather the EU would adopt our ideas on animal welfare. The transport of live animals over long distances is something we in the UK are apposed to but the EU are not.
The Erasmus program is a great thing for students but I can't see why any European organisations would want to stop it, after all I'm sure there are loads of students wanting to come here. I have a relative who went to China recently to University there and another who has just returned from Australia on an exchange so it's not just the EU who do exchanges.
As for tax dodging multinationals! What about Amazon and their deal they did with the EU president!

I have asked it, one person has responded: why did you vote to remain?

Proof that at least some Leave voters only read what they want to read, there's at least 3 Remain voters who've given reasons on this thread.

Still not a single credible Leave reason yet though.

Bear try to remember you have no idea if/how I voted... I have said over and over on threads like these I won't say what/if... my main bugbear is that for decades we have had the kind of politicians who see being elected, having a political mandate as a job, a career, or worse a boost to their post political career.

It is pointless of you to get quite so personal!

A great many people outside London, apparently felt unheard, disenfranchised, ignored. So yes, many would have voted "Fuck You". Many of those communities have sod all to lose and won't see much change even of the much touted 'worst' happens. They will see a determination to maintain the status quo as the monied majority not giving a fuck about them - and they may be right!

There is so much more going on than In/Out and the referendum gave many, usually apolitical people a platform for making their voices heard. Again, that was a political error, made by arrogant, career politicians who thought they were unassailable - the lack of a Brexit Plan gives truth to that!

ourblanche, this isn't personal. I couldn't give a shit if or what you voted.

This vote wasn't about career politicians or making their voices heard- it was about leaving or remaining in the EU.

I just want to hear a single positive outcome we should expect from leaving the EU.

I gave up on these type of threads 2 weeks ago. The goady 'give me one good reason why you voted Leave' threads. The antagonism has been astounding.

Anyone with half a brain cell will have stopped trying to explain either way why they voted as there's always 1 or 100 people on here that seem to know better and most Leavers fucked off to a Facebook page made especially by a MN'er who was sick to death of seeing these threads

'Oh, oh, got one! Farage resigned, hopefully we'll never hear from again'

Will he not get his own slot on LBC? Thought I heard that. Isn't he a regular there anyway?

Also he says he will continue to press and ensure brexit happens. So we will hear more gas from him. Sorry to burst that moment of joy.

Sadly Bear, you just don't get it. You may not believe it, care about it, see the connection, but many others did and voted accordingly.

What you want is inutterably uninteresting and that you so casually and selfishly dismiss all of that speaks volumes!

The most credible leave reason is that most of us wanted it, in a democracy that's enough.

But also a few things off the top of my head (not an exhaustive list by any means) -
The EU is a non-democratic bureaucracy set up to allow Germany and France to dominate the rest of Europe (ask the Greeks).
Austerity is a key EU economic policy.
The EU and the Euro are doomed to failure, the UK has a unique opportunity to get a head start on negotiating a post EU relationship with the rest of the world.
The EU is so corrupt it can't get its own accounts signed off.
The EU is so corrupt it allowed Greece to join the Euro knowing it didn't meet the requirements (that went well).
The EU's usual response to countries that hold referendums that deliver the "wrong" answer is to tell them to have another vote and maker sure that they get the answer right this time.

All in all we're well out of it

It's not goady to ask for a credible positive of leaving looby

It is goady to start threads saying 'I'm so positive about leaving' but then fail to give a single tangible reason why which is why I'm persuing this.

Surely someone could come up with something worthwhile just to shut those of us who keep asking up if nothing else.

'It's pathetic that these questions keep getting turned around and instead of answering the bloody question it becomes a juvenile game of 'if you don't know I'm not telling you'

This isn't goady? Ok OP

Sadly Bear, you just don't get it. You may not believe it, care about it, see the connection, but many others did and voted accordingly.

I do get it- it's the protest voters who didn't- the ballot paper didn't mention spurious connections to UK politics - it was just about leaving the EU.

Im just going to pick one of those points to 'tear apart' redactio please can you provide the source to this claim

The EU is so corrupt it can't get its own accounts signed off.

Again... the EU has done nothing good for those 'protest voters' as you call them. They don't see the benefits, they don't experience the benefits, they have a very different view of the EU than you seem to.

I didn't say they all voted as a protest, but for the majority their perceived position made them more likely to vote than they had been in any recent election. That they voted out is a reflection of their 'fuck you' vote and their lack of engagement with the EU.

And now you will repeat that is meaningless and you just want someone to give you ONE GOOD REASON!

A great many people outside London, apparently felt unheard, disenfranchised, ignored. So yes, many would have voted "Fuck You".

Whilst you're correct ourblanche, this is partly why I'm annoyed. We had a general election not that long ago. I would have loved, loved for this 'fuck you' attitude to have been demonstrated then. I joined several marches against austerity, and changes to council tenancies. During which I shouted 'Fuck the tories' so I agree whole heartedly with the sentiment (sorry any conservs here) Fat lot of good it did! Biased BBC barely gave the demos coverage.

Getting the tories out would have been a good thing. Mobilising around a party who espoused greater social justice would have done infinitely more for the disenfranchised than choosing to vote out of the EU. Worse that many had never voted before, and only voted this one time in their lives to vote leave. They weren't sticking fingers up to the elite. So keen to hurt the elite they hurt themselves, and things can get worse.

fullfact.org/europe/did-auditors-sign-eu-budget/

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36276175

Twisted words, lies and games of semantics on both sides, again!

Lots ore links saying the same thing easily available via Google

Antique I doubt we are very far apart politically.

I've read those links before ourblanche, hence my question.

Stating The EU is so corrupt it can't get its own accounts signed off is an exaggeration to say the least.