A thread for Leave voters to list the positives of leaving the EU

[Bearbehind]

Seeing as the previous thread is nearly full and no one on it has given us a single tangible positive that we can expect from leaving the EU as opposed to staying I thought I'd start a shiny new thread with a thousand opportunities.

Like it OurBlanche - should start the opposite tread and see how they like it!
I'm mystified why you would want more federalization, the Euro - which will be imposed on all in the future, the privatisation of the NHS are just a few I can add.

There are no positives. The economy will tank, racial conflict will increase and the UK will justifiably become the laughing stock of the civilised world. All the bigots won't even get their block on free EU migration. No way we're gaining access to the EEA without free movement. So we will just end up having to renegotiate over a hundred trade agreements and with an EU deal that gives us even less power over all the regulations we will have to accept. The only people who are going to profit in any way from Brexit are lawyers.

Frankly, anyone who believed that toxic barrage of bigotry, lies, propaganda and so much misinformation and voted Leave has no right to complain about the economic shitstorm that will be visited on their dumb asses.

Suck it up.

Corcory - can you explain why staying in the EU would lead to privatisation of the NHS?

getting Turkey into the EU quite quickly

Oh yes, tell me more?

OurBlanche - not all Remainers are Tories. If they had been the only party to support Remain, then yes, legitimately you could say that the things in your answer were what they were voting for, because they are straightforward Tory policies.

No Remainer voted for getting Turkey into the EU at all, never mind quite quickly because we know it's just not going to happen. They have been trying for 35 years or so.

Again, is dismantling of the NHS EU policy? Last time I looked, Germany, NL, Denmark, had good health care schemes.

A reason for voting against the EU could be a woeful response to the Refugee crisis. Remind me which side of the debate showed a picture of Refugees? (Syrian Refugees crossing into some non-EU state as far as I recall.)

Turkey is not going to join the EU. Have you been in a coma for the last week?

John - what the --- are you talking about - The EU don't have hundreds of trade deals - more like 50 and not with the main players.

As for your ridiculous assertions about a 'toxic barrage of bigotry, lies and propaganda' - what the F are you talking about? The only thing I can think of is the £350m. The doom mongers on the remain ide have a lot to answer for.

So.... you see the ridiculousness of it when you disagree with the viewpoint, but can't quite grasp that that is exactly how Leavers must see the Remain rhetoric!

Have a look at the other post... you will easily find similar examples where fervent Remainers accuse Leavers of wanting all sorts of things that simply are into born out.

The only reason we an be fairly sure of is that a sizable % of the more neanderthal, racist right wing voted out... but they weren't the only Leave voters. The others voted for things that make sense to them...

So go on... Remainers... tel me why you voted to stay. Try a sensible answer and you will see that any Leaver who chooses to will tear it down.

One other thing we can be sure of... MNers, who profess an opinion, tend to be Remainers. As the forum is full of erudite, verbose women who use the forum to speak out on many subjects and is often accused of being Middle class and London centric it is probably not surprising that the Leave voice is smaller and quite easily squished by weight of opposing voices.

And no, you do not not know how/if I voted!

JohnJ80 go back a bit, before the referendum... Mr Cameron spoke a lot about it over the last few years. I am surprised you don't know that!

That you think I said that without knowing about the recent attacks is just another example of the kneejerk, unthinking reactions here. You assume, incorrectly, that someone saying something you disagree with is thick... well... no, that is your bias!

As another poster has already said it's no wonder that leave voters are not willing to get involved in your little thread. They probably had their quite valid opinions torn to shreds on one of the many many previous threads that are full of hysterical posts about how we're all doomed and the country is going to explode now that we're out of the EU. one good thing might be is if the eu ever implodes on itself we won't be part of it anymore.

I voted Leave but struggle to use a keyboard what with my knuckles dragging on the floor whilst breathing through my mouth. I am also old, racist, stupid and easily led by stupid campaign bus logos. I'm just going to sit quietly feeling really regretful whilst the lawyers and academics and London metropolitan elite decide what's best for me. I know all these things about myself from previous threads where I've tried to have intelligent conversations even though these are obviously beyond me what with me being an old, racist, gullible knuckledragger

Try a sensible answer and you will see that any Leaver who chooses to will tear it down.

I will bite. I voted Remain because we have a strong scientific research base, which receives EU funding and is heavily reliant on international co-operation, so freedom of movement is important. This is now under threat.

Equally, given that we have had freedom of movement for 25 years or so, so many people are in relationships with people of other EU nationalities. What will happen to them or their children? Yes, I agree that TM in her attempt to get immigration down, did make it difficult for other nationalities to stay, unless they were relatively wealthy, but do we want to replicate that on a grand scale? For me, the answer is no.

The Northern Ireland Peace process was hard won, after years of bloodshed, and to be in danger of throwing it away, is to my mind, almost criminal.

Even if we don't like the way some nations want the EU to develop, it's better to be a part of it, to have input into the laws being made and moderate some of the more extreme examples than to be outside, but need to abide by the laws with no say in their formulation. If we want to continue to trade with the EU and I imagine that we will do.

So please tear it down.

My reasons for voting remain (happy to share and happy to have them torn apart, but don't have hours to spend on MN so won't respond to the various tearings-apart for some time maybe):
Environment - before joining the EU (I was alive then!) we were known as the 'dirty man of Europe'. I remember the Thames being filthy and barely able to sustain life. Our beaches were filthy, our seas full of raw sewage. It seems to me that our own government is not that interested in the environment, so I feel the EU acts as a kind of braking mechanism to prevent wholesale and irreversible environmental damage.
Jobs - lots of our jobs (1 in 10 I believe) are directly linked to our membership of the single market.
Economy - I've heard a lot of Brexit voters say they think the 'short term pain' is worth the 'long term gain'. I don't agree with this and don't think the pain will be short term.
Universities - I work in one and see the huge value of joint EU research schemes, the Erasmus programme etc. I am very worried about what will happen to university funding and what this will mean. Will fees increase putting university out of reach for all but the privileged few? Humanities subjects are already suffering because of funding cuts, despite arts and culture being a great income stream for the UK.
Multinationals - I think the EU is better placed to take on huge multinationals. Our own government (and previous ones) have been unwilling to tackle tax dodging/inequality. I believe we have a better chance of improving these things if we're in the EU.
Freedom of Movement - I think this is a great thing, although I recognise it's one of the things Brexit voters least like. I've lived in different countries though, so do feel more 'European' than British.
Peace - We've had forty years of peace in Europe. I think that's a great thing.
I also think that we had a strong negotiating position and were well placed to argue for the changes we (the UK) wanted to see in the EU. I think any deal we get post-Brexit will leave us weaker in this respect, if not entirely powerless.
Going to have dinner now.

Sooverthis - has admirably proved a point I think. Nothing to contribute except to put words in other people's mouths?

it is probably not surprising that the Leave voice is smaller and quite easily squished by weight of opposing voices

Of course it is surprising

Leave are not a tiny proportion of the population. There were more Leave than Remain voters; their voices should be the loudest.

It's pathetic that these questions keep getting turned around and instead of answering the bloody question it becomes a juvenile game of 'if you don't know I'm not telling you'.

Our thoughts are very similar twofingers.

There is no reason why our government couldn't promote environmental issues, and provide something even better than EU regs do, but as yet, I have seen no committment to doing so.

My reason for voting Remain was quite simple- I couldn't see any tangible benefit of Leaving- still can't.

it is probably not surprising that the Leave voice is smaller and quite easily squished by weight of opposing voices

Good grief, I had this whole thing wrong after all and can stop posting. For the past four weeks, I've been labouring under the misapprehension that there was a majority who voted to Leave .

You seem to think that the tearing down needs to be logical, when I have repeatedly said it rarely is:

Research happened for centuries without the EU, it's all just different pits of money and (truthfully) my favourite job was EU funded and when the initial funding term was over we had to change the nature of the work drastically if we wanted another EU round. So we didn't, we made other provision. Reliance on one funding stream has never been a good idea!

Immigration has been a lie on both sides, Cameron continued to lie long after Farage and others pointed out he was the only person in the UK that believed his lies, reducing immigration to 10s of thousands was never a realistic target and, had Cameron stopped whipping up that fervour, wouldn't have become such a cause... and no, I would want a meritocratic immigration procedure... skill based, as I believe many Leave campaigners said, often and loud.

Northern Ireland will only become bloody again if the people in any part of Ireland allow it. If the peace is that fragile it would have erupted in any case... there have been signs of that for the past couple of years, Brexit did not cause them!

And we have no input into EU laws. There is an unelected council which makes all the decisions - and now we a know what one of them looks like!

There is a whole world out there, a number of other, wealthy countries have already indicated they would really like to treat with us without all the EU hassle. We may even be able to pull together the Commonwealth again... should anyone remember the reality of that!

I know what you will say... I have read what you will say so very many times here over the last few weeks.

John - what the --- are you talking about - The EU don't have hundreds of trade deals - more like 50 and not with the main players.

Corcory: The LSE beg to differ.

blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexitvote/2016/03/04/leaving-the-eu-would-mean-renegotiating-more-than-100-trade-agreements/

They lied about the 350 million,; they lied about Turkish accession; they led people to believe that net immigration would decrease,; they lied about the percentage of EU laws on UK statute books. Their entire case rested on outright lies, lies by omission, misinformation and appealing to people's base instincts.

And the worst thing is that cynical sociopath Jonson knew it. Did you see his and Gove's 'victory speech'? They were shitting themselves. They'd wanted a 52% Remain win so that Cameron was fatally undermined enough for them to muscle in and have a jolly jape running the country. Basically Jonson was using people as fools, gambling the future of an entire continent for the sake his own grubby personal ambitions. I've never known behaviour so disgraceful.

I voted remain, for similar reasons as 2fingers. But husband voted leave because he hates Cameron et al. I don't think he had thought it all through, but who did? and who knows anyway?
I read that the issue will have to be debated in Parliament before TM can start negotiations.

Leave are not a tiny proportion of the population. There were more Leave than Remain voters; their voices should be the loudest. So you ignored my explanation of that then! Made your point by twisting what I actually posted.... nice!

It's pathetic that these questions keep getting turned around and instead of answering the bloody question it becomes a juvenile game of 'if you don't know I'm not telling you'.

Which was my point in the first place. Odd that you leap on me for doing it... and not the person I was responding to!

Can you see now why these threads always end badly? Far too much rhetoric still. The honest truth would be to say that we each voted according to our own bias and very, very few people in the UK, who voted, could state with any certainty, that they had good cause, a solid reasoning or truthful information on which to base their decision.

Why? Because we have allowed our politicians to forget their jobs. We have had career politicians, self aggrandising marketeers and PR experts for far too long.

Maybe, just maybe, whatever happens next, we can prevent that from happening again.

Come on JohnJ80... You have done a bot of research into Cameron and Turkey by now, surely! Anything to add, an apology maybe???

The honest truth would be to say that we each voted according to our own bias and very, very few people in the UK, who voted, could state with any certainty, that they had good cause, a solid reasoning or truthful information on which to base their decision.

IMO that's simply not true but I'll go with it if it gets you to give an answer- I've explained my 'bias' was I don't see the case for Leaving.

Surely you can explain your 'bias' without twisting it back on everyone else?

It's like arguing with a bunch of three year olds. For the love of God, can nobody tell one single positive reason to leave the EU that hasn't already been withdrawn or proven as total BS?