A thread for Leave voters to list the positives of leaving the EU

[Bearbehind]

Seeing as the previous thread is nearly full and no one on it has given us a single tangible positive that we can expect from leaving the EU as opposed to staying I thought I'd start a shiny new thread with a thousand opportunities.

Why would you not think I was addressing you Maki, since I named you in my post? Sounds like you don't want to answer. As usual.

Re the 'waste' in the public sector.
I have worked in both public and private sectors, and there is just as much waste and bureaucracy in private sector organisations.
One thing which pleased me about the public sector was that those at the bottom of the heirarchy e.g., cleaners, could still get decent conditions, such as proper holidays, be part of the pension scheme etc. In short be treated as though their contribution mattered. Contrast that with now, and sh*t wages and no security for those at the bottom, and CEOs taking home eye watering salaries, which they can't possibly justify.
And no, non of that is because of the EU.

maki it is a cop out to say you won't post anything until the thread is 'more respectful'.

'You haven't earned them' is quite the funniest reason I've heard for not telling us your views on we have to look forward to.

We have got to renegotiate with 27 countries to get our EU trade deals- they each a stake in what is agreed and have vetoes so whatever is agreed has to suit all of them. That's unlikely to work out well for us is it?

Um Maki, I'm not sure how you can tell me i'm hitting myself in the face and ask people to be more respectful.

Secondly, you are the one who keeps missing the point about the £7bn, as it is administered by national governments once it leaves the EU any material error is on behalf of the national governments not the EU. The EU simply has to account for it! Examples of things counted as part of the material error are grants made to tourist attractions in the UK, that then faced financial difficulties and closed.

Carol, your points about "disaster happening at the time of the vote" don't stand scrutiny, Cameron said he would invoke article 50 immediately and therefore all predictions are based on this. So far nothing has changed and is unlikely to do so for at least 2.5 years so of course its "business as usual". The markets have settled because of the BOE offering access to funding, the markets have changed though because those that have high values now are those that trade mainly in currencies other than the £ who will see an increase in profits, or are the result of traders taking defensive positions.

However, we have also seen British companies that trade mainly in £ have their values slashed, companies have stated that their long term investment plans and the level of business optimism is low.

"Brexit optimism of the future is winning in reality over the remain pessimism."

Not what the consumer confidence surveys or business optimism ones say. Sorry.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36864273

UK economy plunges to its lowest level since 2009.

smallfox If we had immediately triggered article 50, if would have been business as usual for 2 years, so are you saying that people are waiting for 6 months to panic react? If we had got a leader who was prevaricating about Brexit, then I would understand no change, but a 6 month delay does not make any difference. You are clutching at straws to protect your view that we are all going to hell in a handcart.
In actuality, no-one will risk any significant impact, so we will negotiate free market access in Europe with some controls on free movement and then move on from there.

In actuality, no-one will risk any significant impact, so we will negotiate free market access in Europe with some controls on free movement and then move on from there

If that's genuinely what you think will happen then it does rather beg the question - what was the fucking point?

what was the fucking point?

I have a feeling that very question will be asked a heck of a lot over the next few years.

The point was control over free movement to protect the low paid and the ability to negotiate better trade deals outside the EU over the next 10-20 years, thus re-balancing our economy away from the EU.
We will also benefit from cheaper food from Africa, who will also benefit from better trade access, thus alleviating poverty across the world.

But you've just conceded there will only be 'some' controls on free movement. We already have 'some' controls.

Is it too early for ?

I can't see how triggering Article 50 could have been anything but 'business as usual'. It would just have started the clock earlier. It took Greenland 3 years to negotiate its exit, with only fishing rights to consider, and a much smaller European community to negotiate with. So how anyone expects that a much bigger community like the UK with fishing, agricultural issues, financial services, scientific collaboration, plus two nations and an overseas territory to contend who want to stay in, with can be done without pulling out all the stops going, is beyond me. Thankfully, I am not in Government.

And if anyone thinks that the current government will control free movement to protect the lower paid, can think again. They could have protected the lower paid under the existing terms but they haven't bothered.

....plus two nations and an overseas territory who want to stay in to contend with .

We will also benefit from cheaper food from Africa, who will also benefit from better trade access, thus alleviating poverty across the world.

That sounds very noble- we voted to leave the EU to alleviate world poverty.

How do you see that working caroldecker?

So Carol has suggested yet another benefit of leaving the EU and you suggest that was her one and only reason in a sneering way Bear! Why?

CAP makes up about 35-40% of EU budget, being some £50bn a year. We also have average agricultural import tariffs of 12%, up to 604% on some products.
Here is a full explanation.

I'm not sneering corcory, I accept I may come across that way but I'm just exasperated with the reasons people are coming up with. They just sound so vague to me.

I'm the first to admit I'm not knowledgable about trading with Africa or about CAP and if leaving the EU really was going to alleviate world poverty I completely accept that would be a huge positive but I don't understand how that will happen.

If you or anyone else can explain how that would happen, using facts not vague sentiments, I'd love to hear it.

I'm not sure that producing food for us in an unsustainable climate is really great for Africa to be totally honest. Water is a massive issue.

*more food for us

Not every part of the African continent has a massive water issue.
The Ivory coast for instance, is the world's leading producer of Cocoa.

Bearbehind Some reading for you,

capx.co/how-the-eu-starves-africa-into-submission/

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/26/eu-is-responsible-for-using-taxpayers-money-to-undercut-african/

www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/speech_by_james_cleverly_mp

www.tuaeu.co.uk/how-the-eu-starves-africa/

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/21/waste-cash-leavers-in-out-land-subsidie

Excellent links Carol. This is the type of thing that gives me so much optimism about the future.
When we have control of our own trade agreements we will be able to do so much.

Like what?

caroldecker the problem is you've said noone will risk any significant impact

I actually agree on that point. I'm sceptical that we'll ever even invoke article 50- TM's cabinet seems to have been set up with the intention of giving Brexiteers enough rope to hang themselves so she can claim even those who were behind Brexit couldn't make it work.

Even if it does happen, we'll only ever get Brexit-lite which will mean we still pay the EU in order to trade, they still fund CAP and nothing much changes.

Brings me back to - what was the fucking point?

I've said before, if Leave had been guaranteed a radical 'fuck you' to the EU and we became entirely self sufficient, only entering into deals which benefited us I can see what their ultimate goal was- as it is it is all seeming extremely pointless.

When we have control of our own trade agreements we will be able to do so much.

That is just the bravado bullshit I'm talking about