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Brexit
Original poster

Does anyone else find themselves getting more sympathetic to the other side

429 replies

whydidhesaythat · 11/07/2016 20:59

I don't know if this is just another stage in the cycle of grief but I'm starting to feel that:

Those of us who were doing very nicely out of Europe thank you ignored those who didn't

EU money can go into buildings but that's not the same thing as helping people

People outside the urban centres felt the EU was just another siphon of power away from them

London patronises the regions

Not everyone got to go on a gap year to a European country so why should they be bothered about my kids having one?

There actually is a non racist anti immigration argument

I'm not saying any of this right, it may just be another reaction....but does anyone else find themselves empathising with the other side more than they did?

OP posts:
TheElementsSong · 14/07/2016 09:04

'Remain' has now become a religion.

Who said satire is dead? Grin I love you Surfer, don't ever stop posting!

SnowBells · 14/07/2016 09:05

Iamthegreatest1

I can only smile. The number of times someone has posted about their kids future being taken away by bloody Brexiters; No longer able to study in Europe, settle in Europe wink they're obviously assuming these options are open to everyone.

Oh. My. God. That is the sort of jealous, spiteful attitude that creates mediocrity in society.

"Oh, that school is great, but not everyone can go there, so let's shut it down. That's only fair to all those who can't go there."

Hmm

Just because an option is not available for everyone... you shouldn't want to close it! Bloody hell!!! I'm never going to be a Hollywood star, but that doesn't mean I want to close down all drama schools on this planet!!!

BertrandRussell · 14/07/2016 09:11

Remind me what a religion is? Oh yes. A belief system that's not testable or based on anything except faith....................

MangosteenSoda · 14/07/2016 09:17

I posted on another thread about being from a working class background, first person from both sides of my family to even get A Levels.

I have studied and lived in two EU countries. It's incredibly short sighted to write off such opportunities as only for the privileged, although they will certainly become much more so now.

Underparmummy · 14/07/2016 11:14

Exactly mangosteensoda - we have now made sure that languages are only a study option for the wealthy. Hurrah for us.

papayasareyum · 14/07/2016 13:18

the intellectual and moral superiority from remainers is nauseating

TheElementsSong · 14/07/2016 15:21

the intellectual and moral superiority from remainers is nauseating

Does this actually mean anything apart from "disagrees with you using Facts"?

EverythingWillBeFine · 14/07/2016 15:39

papaya can you explain what you mean?
Just curious really.
Since the vote, I have seen a lot if retainers coming over with facts and ideas etc... but very few Leavers. I have been wondering why.
Is that one if the reasons? That a lot Leavers think Remainers are 'too superior' ?

BertrandRussell · 14/07/2016 15:40

"the intellectual and moral superiority from remainers is nauseating"

Could you say a bit more about this?

MustStopAndThinkBeforePosting · 14/07/2016 16:07

I keep hearing things like papayasareyum's comment in response to any attempt to grapple with the issues realistically rather than with blinkered optimism that Brexit is all going to be lovely.

I think it means "there isn't anything intelligent to say in response to this so I am going to attack the tone of voice because it is too difficult to consider whether the actual words might be true"

Cognitive Disonance is uncomfortable. It is avoided by either allowing new thoughts to replace older thoughts, or by refusing to give brain space to any idea that contradicts cherished beliefs. Comments like this are very helpful for avoiding ideas which might be uncomfortable.

Lico · 14/07/2016 16:39

Must stop : yes, it seems that some staunch Leavers suffer from Cognitive dissonance. I read an article recently about this trait; Tony Blair had it when dealing with the Irak War.

Lico · 14/07/2016 16:43

Some people will become more entrenched in their views if presented with facts that contradict their beliefs.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-36744911

Winterbiscuit · 14/07/2016 16:51

yes, it seems that some staunch Leavers suffer from Cognitive dissonance

And some staunch Remainers of course!

caroldecker · 14/07/2016 20:48

I have put a number of leave arguments which remainers refuse to listen to - there are no 'facts' at present about the future, just opinions.
With both the UK and Switzerland looking for no free movement, the EU has little choice but to accept free trade without free movement or collapse in on itself.
If free movement of people is such a boon to the EU, they will be happy to not allow UK to have it as it will weaken the UK economy.

EverythingWillBeFine · 14/07/2016 21:14

I have to say I would very much doubt that the EU will change their stance on the fre movement. It's one of the corner stones of the creation of the EU. Not something that has come later on.

I would like to know carol why do you think that the EU has no other choice than to bow to the UK and Switzerland request?
From the other side, esp from countries such as Gremany or France, they will be very happy for the UK to live to be able to go further on a political Europe (which is already on the cards) so why would they be happy to go back on what is one of their basic principle?

Curious to know what card we have to play there.

EverythingWillBeFine · 14/07/2016 21:15

Just reread your posts again.
Why would the EU collapse wo the UK trade?

SnowBells · 14/07/2016 23:23

Everything Anything Carol says makes no sense to me. Don't worry...

caroldecker · 15/07/2016 00:48

UK is about 7% of EU exports, around £200bn, so is Switzerland. So between them they have 14% of EU exports.
Why would the EU lose or damage those flows for free movement of people. Even if the governments would like to, the resulting recession would drive them from power and vote in politicians who would do deals in the interest of the population.

SnowBells · 15/07/2016 07:51

caroldecker

From research I've seen, the recession that would arise from the fallout of the European Union would be much larger than a recession that would arise due to a decrease in exports. Plus, the GBP is no longer strong as it once was, so revenues from Britain - if the prices were to remain steady - are automatically lower than what they were before Brexit.

EverythingWillBeFine · 15/07/2016 08:40

Interesting because I wound have said its ONLY 7% whereas expect from the uk to the EU is 40+% so the uk would have much more to loose iyswim.

snow yes the possible recession at least to start with both on the side if the uk and on the side of the EU is to take into consideration too.

EverythingWillBeFine · 15/07/2016 08:43

I do think though that people like carol think only in terms of loss of business etc
Whereas I think there is much more involved in the EU than just business. It has ceased to be just a trade agreement a long time ago.

Original poster
whydidhesaythat · 15/07/2016 21:29

Update

Turns out it was just part of the cycle of grief

When Johnson was appointed as foreign secretary I got angry again

OP posts:
Namehanger · 15/07/2016 21:34

Why - yep still angry, calmed down briefly after two weeks but now ramping up again.

Who are these idiots?

Original poster
whydidhesaythat · 15/07/2016 21:43

I see him on television and I understand how people felt about Mrs Thatcher

OP posts:
GloriaGaynor · 15/07/2016 22:49

I felt very differently about Thatcher. I hated her but she was focused and achieved her aims (whatever the cost). Johnson's just an idiot.