Does anyone else find themselves getting more sympathetic to the other side

[whydidhesaythat]

I don't know if this is just another stage in the cycle of grief but I'm starting to feel that:

Those of us who were doing very nicely out of Europe thank you ignored those who didn't

EU money can go into buildings but that's not the same thing as helping people

People outside the urban centres felt the EU was just another siphon of power away from them

London patronises the regions

Not everyone got to go on a gap year to a European country so why should they be bothered about my kids having one?

There actually is a non racist anti immigration argument

I'm not saying any of this right, it may just be another reaction....but does anyone else find themselves empathising with the other side more than they did?

Greenwood, I would say those voters were victims of Johnson, not like Johnson.

But it's not about rich kids going to Europe, surely? What about Nyone that wanted to move looking for work? And anyway that's only a tiny part- what about the EU subsidies to some of the poorest parts of this country?

Maki, yes x

I cant understand the rationale of helping poor people in the UK by allowing migration from even poorer countries.

I dont understand making those at the bottom worse off?

Frank Field observations were spot on.

Sorry That should be mass migration.

Nope, everyone has the chance to work and study in the EU, from whatever background you are in.

You don't need to be at university to take advantage of this there are a myridad of opportunities, you just have to look and stop waiting for them to come to you.

Namehanger
Why do think that young people will no longer be able to study in Europe? They may have to pay for it, but also there is a lot of funding and scholarships available to good students from outwith the EU.
EU universities positively encourage overseas students, I don't think that will change because of Brexit.

I saw people being asked about the concert halls the EU had paid for in their area. They gave a wry laughs, they didn't use them.

" what about the EU subsidies to some of the poorest parts of this country?"

Bertrand Russell - Where does the money from those subsidies come from?

Yes, but you need both because not everyone in Sunderland wants to work in manufacturing or heavy industry. Some want to go to university, study abroad etc..

In fact my one friend from Sunderland is now a partner in a city law firm but that was before the educational ladder was lifted up.

I do wonder if 50% of our young people should go to university has actually done those communities a disservice. Now a degree means nada, important jobs like nursing didn't used to need a degree, now our young people get swallowed up in debt. You used to be able to leave school, work and succeed.

I'm a remained, but I can clearly see why someone who can barely put food on the table and heat their home, does not give a shit about a shiny new building to house concerts they can't afford to go to.

UK universities have already lost EU research funding.

Ds's school, which is in an area of significant social deprivation is involved in a EU funded scheme which meant that some of the children could take part in exchange visits to European countries completely free. It was fantastic- lots of children had experiences that they could never have hoped to have had- and that's gone. And it's heartbreaking. So don't talk to me about bloody concert halls

*Nope, everyone has the chance to work and study in the EU, from whatever background you are in.

You don't need to be at university to take advantage of this there are a myridad of opportunities, you just have to look and stop waiting for them to come to you.*

This is a very blind assumption.

Well I'm living in the north east. If the UK government had done something to hep the area that would have been nice indeed.
Instead, it let the industry collapsing wo a backward glance.
And refused to help when the EU was actually treating that same area as a deprived area and giving some money there.

So YY to the fact people feel that they have no control and are been shat on by the politicians who all live in the South. Because they are.

But how does bear any relationship with the ability to go studying abroad is lost on me sorry.

Two different issues there.

The North East doesn't need more opportunities to go studying. It needs more opportunities. Full stop.

Opportunities that the UK governement have refused to the North of England for years.

I hate to break the news to people but under Brexit and a continued Tory government deprived (usually Labour voting areas) are likely to get fuck all.

People really do seem to be clutching at straws.

That's obvious Ghost
Things here are going to get much much worse....

How quick to loose funding two weeks in and we have not even officially left yet or even close to it?

I don't understand what deprived areas think they're going to gain from Brexit at all.

At the moment EU gives subsidies to economically deprived areas - yes it's our money in the first place - but without the EU you're giving the govt (Tories, austerity, Thatcher - remember) complete control of that money. Think they're going to plough it into regeneration of deprived areas?

Jeez - look at the most fervent Exit campaigners - are they the Social Justice Warrior types.... No they're not.

mintjulip proposals for the next funding round is due end of August. DH's work has been asked by some projects to withdraw as a partner in bids. That's how.

"I have not once called Leave voters thick or stupid, I have asked a few to look at the right-wing extremists (BNP, Britain First, Farage, Arron Banks etc) that they were on the same side with though. I believe you should always be careful about who you stand with."

There were undesirable characters on both sides, but in any case, I don't think personalities really come into it. UKIP etc. definitely did not represent all Brexiters, even though the media kept putting Farage in the spotlight at the expense of more moderate views. It's unfortunate that there was no left-wing pro-Brexit party to support.

Like this, Mint. DH and I are both working in academia and it is all true .

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-uk-leaves-the-eu-36719923

I realise hoity-toity stuff like this is loathed by people struggling to live their lives. But these will be our cures for cancer, scientific innovations against climate change etc all delayed or going somewhere else.

It seems a bit contrary to talk about how opportunities to study and work in Europe are only open to those from a comfortable background when a big part of the leave campaign was about Europeans coming over here taking our jobs. And they didn't mean the bankers and lawyers. They meant the plumbers and waitresses and fruit pickers. Why is it only uk citizens from poorer backgrounds who can't move for jobs? What makes them so different from e.g. Polish people?

We'll have to agree to differ, Winterbiscuit. If you can name one far-right extremist organisation along the same lines as Britain First, or the BNP, that support Remain, then I will concede the point.

Tony Blair was on Remain -and should seriously shut up now- but I'll stand with him over Britain First any day of the week.

Trump, Putin - Leave.
Obama, every previous PM of the UK - Remain.
It really should tell you something.

If the UK government had done something to hep the area that would have been nice indeed."

What you mean like the far larger amount of public spending that goes into the North East than it generates in tax?

Like the grants given to Nissan, Komatsu and the pharma industry that keep jobs there?

Like the 490 million paid by the EU over the last 7 years just for "economic development purposes" and no the EU doesn't consider the NE a deprived area.

Like the 4 major universities located in the NE which not only generate jobs themselves, but supply more jobs in the cities they are in? What about the major hospitals it has some with world renowned departments who all benefit from government money. What about the roads and bridges built for you by the EU? What about the libraries paid for?

What about all the developments outside Sunderland like Doxford, built with public money to attract office work? Firms that were then given public money to locate there? The same with in Peterlee and Darlington? The government contracts given to Rolls Royce and Vickers?

The North East does have the largest unemployment rate in the country, but it is still falling (down 0.7% in Jan this year), but as we both know there are more reasons for that than "the goverment doesn't give us anything".

I'm a native of the North East and return often, I'm sorry the North East can't pretend it doesn't get "anything".

It gets far more out of public spending than in contributes to the exchequer, it benefits far more than any other region from EU spending.

Oh btw, it isn't a blind assumption about the work and study opportunities in the EU, its true, there is even access to funding to help you get there.

No, much less sympathy actually. I was touch and go until right up until voting day. I read and read and could see positives for both sides.

But the behaviour of remainers has been beyond anything I could have imagined, I'm not talking about peaceful protest, but the venom and disdain from some people.