Does anyone else find themselves getting more sympathetic to the other side

[whydidhesaythat]

I don't know if this is just another stage in the cycle of grief but I'm starting to feel that:

Those of us who were doing very nicely out of Europe thank you ignored those who didn't

EU money can go into buildings but that's not the same thing as helping people

People outside the urban centres felt the EU was just another siphon of power away from them

London patronises the regions

Not everyone got to go on a gap year to a European country so why should they be bothered about my kids having one?

There actually is a non racist anti immigration argument

I'm not saying any of this right, it may just be another reaction....but does anyone else find themselves empathising with the other side more than they did?

I dunno Gloria,

We had a retired history professor round the other night. He said Johnson's techniques are very similar to the "clown" techniques of Mussolini.

I hate the way I feel played by him when he speaks.

I feel less sympathetic because the leave voters I know do not have the courage of their convictions. They have either realised it was a mistake and are feeling guilty or are keeping quiet and pretending they didn't vote to leave. I also was under the falsehood at first that reason would prevail. It hasn't so I am less sympathetic and more disillusioned.

delusion, not falsehood- I don't know what happened there!

Yep - still angry. Talking with my "leave voter" mother this week has made me more so. She stands by her leave vote - despite me telling her the impact it will have on my dc, her own grandchildren. Her words: "Oh, it might be all right in the end" !!

She's been moaning to my sisters that I've gone incommunicado with her since the referendum - but I couldn't talk to her. Now I have (3wks down the line) and afterwards, I just don't feel I can talk to her again.

She threw her own gc under the bus. And I can't work out why - something about "bureaucrats in Brussels" - well, that's worth damaging your own gc's future for isn't it??

UnderTheGreenwoodtree

My in-laws are one of the only people on their street that voted Remain. Most others = Leave. Unsurprisingly, the Leave and Remain voters on that street could literally be separated by education/class.

FiL no longer talks to his neighbour's after they all had a proper heated exchange. This is 3 weeks after the vote!!!

My anger hasn't gone either. DH feels the same.

This referendum has completely divided the country. It should never have been called. This is the kind of emotional stuff that could start something like a civil war!

Yeah, it's a real divide isn't it - I obvs can't let this ruin my relationship with mum long term, but I'm just so surprised by her, she is educated, and no DM reading type, but she's coming out with a lot of DM type opinions since the vote. I don't know where it's all come from

Not a real divide in RL. I know many family and friends who voted both ways and there is no issue - any changes will be incremental, small, and, imo, beneficial to the UK and its inhabitants.

My Grandmother has been advised that her local WI may not be for her, after starting a "isn't the result a shame?" conversation and realising she's the only one who thought so.

carol you can say YOU haven't seen a real divide but please don't say that there isn't any at all when people before you have clearly experienced it!

I have been extremely careful NOT to talk about it at all. Because YES it is extremely divisive. And YES both Leavers and Remainers are very entrenched in their convictions and will not accept that someone else will think differently.
The problem of course is that the Leave vote won with a very small majority and that nearly 50% of voters actually wanted IN.
So we now have a nice divide, nearly right in the middle with people with opposite opinions.

The way the campaign was conducted and the way people reacted after the election (incl the politicians themselves) haven't helped one bit either.

It will take a LONG time for things to settle, esp when people will start loosing their jobs (because it will happen even if things then get much better afterwards), we will go through a period of high uncertainty, instability etc... Whilst the UK will find its feet again. I predict there will be a lot of resentment from the Remainers. And a lot of anger from the Leavers for being held responsible of the situation.

That's, of course, wo even going into the issue of Scotland and NI.

Underthegreenwoodtree Exactly the same feeling here. My parents are in their 80s so there really isn't time for resentment but I was woken up at 5am on the morning after the referendum by a DD shouting "fucking idiots, they have voted to leave, what have they done, as if your generation hadn't fucked us over enough already".

Since then when I meet friends of my own age I approach the subject cautiously simply because I know I might blow and that this should not be getting in the way of what matters in life but it turns out like me they have never felt so strongly about any political issue in their life and it actually affected them in a physical visceral way that morning, along with similar responses from their children. I have been trying to work out why, and I think that alongside everything else, the economic and political effects, it goes deep into our identity, one which frankly felt we had more in common than sets us apart with the rest of the world and especially Europe and we don't want to be part of a small backward looking isolationist island trying to live on illusions of greatness born of a frankly far from entirely glorious imperial past. But also the sickening feeling that all the people voting because of the effects of austerity and past government measures got the wrong target. I fully empathise with those affected, I am a northerner, I do believe The benefits of globalisation and immigration have not been directed to the right places but they are exactly the ones that will suffer when the impact of Brexit is fully felt and it is, and this is already happening, used as an excuse by the government to move even further right.

My Mum also comes out with the exact words "it will be fine" and "we lived through the times before the EU it was fine then " So did I, it was pretty grim setting out on a career in a recession. And now her grandchildren will be having to do that too..... All because Britain is full apparently, and this from former active Liberal party members, Dad was a Liberal Councillor!

By the way OP Boris is not an idiot, far from it, that is the problem. He may have misjudged the effect his exploitative rhetoric would unleash but it was still very exploitative. And he will keep on because domestic power politics is trumping (literally) the rest of the world at the moment.

You don't need to tell me that. Exploitative is the word :(

Whatwould

we don't want to be part of a small backward looking isolationist island which is why we voted Leave to join in with the rest of the world, including China, India, Africa rather than a small backward looking white western protectionist continent.

Totally agree, whatwouldrondo. I am devastated, it's going to affect all our futures. I just keep thinking job losses, the affect on universities, and young people's opportunities, a recession is looking more than likely.

But you're right - it's more than that - it goes deep to our real identity as a country. Are we part of Europe politically, socially - I absolutely felt I was. I feel that's been taken away from us, and replaced by some Faragian dystopia, a small island with a faint (or overt, even) dislike of foreigners.

Oh and Carol - I'm not particularly keen on being politically allied with China, India or Africa thanks very much. I'd rather it be with the continent we actually geographically belong to - our neighbours.

carol forgive if I'm worng. I thought people voted Leave to be able to 'get their country back' not to 'join in' with anyone else???

we voted Leave to join in with the rest of the world

Am I right in thinking you are talking about trading and collaborating worldwide, including Europe as well as being able to make our own independent arrangments with other countries?

I'm not reading your comment as meaning politically unified. I would agree that being "little England" is not at all the intention of leave supporters, it's to remove ourselves from the inward-looking little EU, so we can look globally without having to do the exact same as 27 other countries.

The affiliation with 27 of our closest neighbours makes us stronger - trade wise, politically, economically.

How much this damages us as a country remains to be seen - but damage it will be. The writing's on the wall. Leavers that I know irl seem to think it's worth it - I don't agree.

caroldeecker well welcome to telling the rest of the world we have lived up to the worst of our brand of having illusions of superiority and entitlement. Honestly those of us who have had to live and deal internationally have been trying to concentrate on the positive , thanks Brexit for dealing a blow

Your update has made me laugh, OP. for you.
I'm far angrier now. I'm finding I have less 'empathy' because it becomes clearer and clearer that this is an almighty fuck up.
ssd I so hope things go OK for you.
I'm so angry when I think about lower income for the UK as a whole, higher taxes, lower benefits.
I despair when I read people saying that this was a way to stick it to the bankers. I despair that so many people voted Leave because of chimaerical fears of immigration.
It's hard because I live in an area that voted strongly for Remain and it's hard not to see the result as a lot of the UK saying they hate what me and the area in which I live represent.

I think a lot of the feigns stirring around were feigns about globalisation. I particularly worry about what globalisation will be like without the EU acting as a buffer.

So, as time goes on, I'm angrier and far less empathetic.

winterbiscuit Exactly
Underthegreenwoodtree I think your comment comes across as a little racist, perhaps you would like to clarify why being politically aligned with a white continent is better than having free trade relationships with the world.

The simple answer is no, I don't want to be politically allied with places like China and Africa - with their human rights records - over our own political and geographical neighbours. And the racists around here would be the ones leaving "Poles go home, we voted Leave" cards in UK schools so that would be the LEAVE voters. Nice try

The EU is a political and trade union with our neighbours - and it's one I'd like to have.

And if you really think the Leave peeps, like Farage, like the BNP, campaigned Leave to ensure that more African, Indian and Chinese people could easily come and work here, you need your head examining. Sorry.

Carol your posts suggest either a desire to be goady or a pitiable ignorance of what racism is.

No. I'm absolutely not feeling sympathy for the 'Leavers'.