Implications of not invoking Article 50

[CuppaTeaAndAJammieDodger]

So there is plenty of talk about whether or not Article 50 will actually be triggered.

Let's say that it's not, what do you think the implications will be? Will the whole sorry mess just get swept under the carpet? Will we be forevermore looked upon as the laughing stock of the EU? Will it's initiate a conversation and possibly action to shake up British politics for the better or worse?

Would like to hear anyone's thoughts.

Remain voters were voting for status quo.

Well if we have then there are going to be some mighty disappointed Remainers aswell then.

The EU evolves. Did people 10/15 years ago think it would be as it is now?

No one has a crystal ball. No one can say what it will be like in or out.

Manor - so remain like things the way they were heading.

more strain on services, more restrictions. More immigration.

So in other words you didn't have a plan you were just rolling along

Leave want that to change. How it changes is not up to us. It is now for the government to decide the best options

I don't know what the remain plan was. Can you tell me that

Um, remain didn't actually need a plan though did they? The plan for that eventuality was that everything would remain the same. The clue is in the name.

And as I said before the likelihood of there being civil unrest is fairly high but as they won't directly touch them the people who make the decisions are hardly going to give a flying fuck. Corporations and banks rule this country and we'll all have to do what's best for them.

Leave want that to change. How it changes is not up to us. It is now for the government to decide the best options

May I ask what happens if some or all of those who voted Leave disagree with the options the government decides on?

Will they just wait for the next General Election, currently scheduled for 2020?

And if the government formed after the GE still decided on options they disagree with, will they accept that?

A lot of remainers don't want all those things green but they failed to see how the eu were causing all those problems and how leaving would solve it without damaging the economy and exacerbating those problems. Not all remainers are pro immigration, a fair few just felt it was a cost worth bearing for things they felt were positive. Remainers, like leavers, are not an homogeneous group. However remainers didn't need a plan for going forward in the immediacy needed by leavers, the in essence had time on their hands to work out the next step. Leave actually requires changing something massive and then quickly readjusting.

Leave voters were promised an end to freedom of movement (aka immigration) and continued access to the single market (aka no hit to the economy). That is impossible - it's having your cake and eating it territory. So whatever happens they'll (rightly) feel cheated.

more strain on services, more restrictions. More immigration

Strain on services is because of years of government cuts and an aging population, I was sure everyone knew that.

Restrictions on what exactly? You're being a bit vague here

And again because of the aging population we do actually need immigration, we need people in the country to work and pay taxes while all of us heading towards retirement take it easy.

Oh god I can see where this is going again ....

I personally do not agree with EU parliament that we did not elect to have control over what we can trade, who we trade with etc we don't get an overall say we get 32% of a vote. I disagree with that

I think EU is dangerous with its lack of immigration controls. Yes I agree we need immigration but it cannot be the open door policy we have

Services are strained due to the open door immigration. If you have a doctors surgery only capable of seeing 100 patients and your area has 100 extra people located there the doctors surgery can't cope. Services struggle

personally do not agree with EU parliament that we did not elect

We do elect them, Fararge is an MEP

EU is dangerous with its lack of immigration controls

Who is the door open to exactly?

Services are strained due to the open door immigration

No they're not, this has actually been proved time and again.

Actually I don't know why I'm even getting into this, you're not going to listen anyway. We'll both be happier if we just forget about it

We have 73 out of 751. The others are not voted by us !

You don't see open door immigration as a problem. That's fine. I do .

And services are strained but I suppose it's where you are living, if your area can cope then great.

And as for me not listening I think the same can go both ways.

M

Services are strained due to the open door immigration
Services are strained because of government cutbacks and - in the NHS - chronic staff shortages, some of which is due to low retention rates/poo staff morale. If immigration plays a part, you could maybe focus on some of the positives, eg. the contribution immigrants make to the NHS?

We have 73 out of 751. The others are not voted by us!

Well why would they be? Who would be representing the other countries? Imagine your local council only having councillors representing a single ward. Do you think the others shouldn't have their own representation? You could argue that we are over-represented with the European Parliament...

listening I think the same can go both ways

Yeah I've tried listening but all you seem to have is "BUT IMMIGRATION!"

Arguing on the internet is occasionally mildly amusing but completely futile, nothing that anyone says here is going to make a blind bit of difference anyway.

My name is Manon not Manor.

The Remain plan

To maintain full membership of the EU. Stay in the single market, maintain current EU free trade agreement, maintain existing world trade deals. To maintain power in Brussels to continue to have a say in decisions that affect the UK. To continue as one of the world's top financial centres, continue to clear EU trades using existing passporting rights, continue with the LSE/Deutsche Börse merger. Maintain a strong pound and economic stability. Prevent the breakup of the UK. Maintain the Good Friday Agreement, and no border controls along the NI border. Maintain the free movement of people within the EU, maintain the status of EU migrants here and UK residents in Europe. Maintain UK's status on the world stage as a springboard to Europe for the U.S. and Asia diplomatically and economically. Maintain all current and future investment from forgeign businesses drawn to the UK for its access to the whole EU market without the red tape.

Maintain the existing EU funding in the following areas:

Scientific research
Medical research
Business startup funding, contracts and investment.
Manufacturing
Charities
Deprived areas such as Wales, Cornwall, Tees, parts of Liverpool.
Environment

To maintain existing EU rules on workers rights, hours, maternity rights etc

Finally, to avoid the disastrous political and economic consequences of a leave vote, and a decade of political and economic uncertainty.

Finally, to avoid the disastrous political and economic consequences of a leave vote, and a decade of political and economic uncertainty.
Quite. But this was dismissed as 'Project Fear'.

Manon - that's auto correct. No offence was meant.

And

Of shoes - hmmm I think the capital letters have just made me realise your game.

Am I right in understanding that from a healthcare perspective we are and have always been in a position to recoup a lot of of our costs for treating non UK EU nationals from their home country, but we've actually only claimed a small percentage? This being the case we can hardly blame the EU for financially crippling the NHS if it's as a result of us not implementing the agreement correctly.

well usually I would ask you what you mean by game but I've come to the conclusion that I genuinely don't care. I'm only coming back to read this thread out of morbid curiosity.

PS - you lot are a heck of a lot more politically savvy than I - I'm reading with interest.

No worries.

Universities was sposed to be on my list of areas that should maintain EU funding.

We have 73 out of 751. The others are not voted by us!
I can only vote for one MP in this country. I cant, for instance, vote on the MP for South Bedfordshire as I don't live there.

Good Plan Manon

cuppa I'm note sure of how much we could claim back, but there was the ability to do that. There's also other things we don't do like send immigrants home who have been on benefits for a certain amount of time.

StrictlyMumDancing - so surely there would have been room for movement whilst still sticking to the regulations of membership of the EU that would have made a lot of potential leave voters happy? I.e. we already have recourse to address so called "immigrants sponging off the state" and "draining our resources" (i.e. financial resources).

Furthermore, the Remain plan wasn't subject to a two year time limit. If we didn't agree with our EU partners we would have gone on discussing/vetoing.