Boris outmaneovered. Et tu Gove & Corbyn? The Westministenders Hunger Games Continues

[RedToothBrush]

Following the Machiavellian Govian shambles? Utterly gobsmacked at the Labour clusterfuck?

Who will strike next?

Who will the shadowy hand of Osborne back?
Can Gove be launched back into space and back to the planet he came from?
Can May save the country from almost certain doom?
Will Leadsom patronise us all to death (whilst silently stabbing people in the back with a sweet smile)?
Can Johnson make a decision he can stick to, and can we persuade him to give up being a politician?
Will Steven Crabb get rid of that god awful beard?

Will Corbyn shoot himself in the other foot?
Will Angela Eagle get a spine and just stand?
Who the fuck is Owen Smith?
Will the Blairites be foiled and damned?
Are momentum a bunch of thugs or a force for a better, for the people?

Will Farage disappear back under his rock?
Will people wake up to Arron Banks?
What will Dominic Cummings destroy next?

Have we seen a coup d'état?
How do we improve democracy and representation?

All these questions and more.
Sense of humour compulsory. No experience necessary though

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2670552-Has-Boris-been-outmanoeuvred?pg=1 Previous thread 1

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2672388-Has-Boris-been-outmanoevered-Will-someone-please-tell-me-who-is-in-charge Previous thread 2

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/a2673982-Have-Boris-and-Jeremy-been-stabbed-in-the-back-Please-can-we-have-some-leaders Previous thread 3

Not sure how people exercising their democratic right to protest is having an impact on the FTSE 100 to be honest.

Meh, I'm not sure I'm even going to comment on Johnson. He's making his leadership bid for the next time round. Judging by the thread saying he's acting like a grown up (with no irony by the OP) I'd say it will be forgot and he has a good shot. Unbelievable.

Tory leadership update:
May 107, Leadsom 29, Gove 25, Crabb 22, Fox 8.
(source Conservativehome.com as of first thing this morning).

noble, Ireland and Italy were marked as friends rather than Switzerland since they are EU members and Switzerland is not. My point being in any deal on trade that's going to be particularly import to them. I know that Germany export more to us than we export from them, but Germany can offset that if they steal our tech industry and finance sector so its not really leverage. Ireland will be a bilateral deal somehow regardless I suspect, so whilst they are useful, they also will only be so useful. On the other hand Italy has most to loose from a bad deal by the look of it. So everyone be REALLY REALLY nice to Italy and Italians...

I am puzzled by this lawsuit saying A50 must be triggered by an Act of Parliament. Haven't the Tories already said this anyway???

We just need as the Queen has said a bit of a pause for reflection. Many remainer business leaders have said a lot about making the best of it and seeking opportunities and we shall do so.

May has made a very good start as reported today by making it clear there is no guarantee anyone living here can stay. that is exactly the stance we need in negotiations with the 27.

I'm not talking about the FTSE 100. Financially things are up and down, and that is to be expected. I'm talking about uncertainty in general.

I'm also curious about the immigration status. If they say "anyone who is in the UK can definitely stay in the UK" then is there a date this becomes effective? Or is it effective the date the A50 is triggered? Or at the end of the 2 years? Are they concerned that if they state this ahead of time, that it will trigger a record number of immigrants coming into the UK? Is that even a possibility? I personally have no issue with people already here staying, just so that's clear. I understand, when there are areas in the country in particular that are struggling with their services because of immigration, however, that they might be concerned that this will create a huge push for immigration to get into the country by the "able to stay in the UK" deadline.

His 5 point "plan" just reads like a deluded wishlist - number 5 in particular, what the hell?

5.The future is very bright indeed. That’s what Geldof should be chanting.

I think this is the development of a narrative in which if Brexit leads to a bad economic outcome for the country it will have been caused by some people not being positive enough.

Yes, head into the negotiations threatening to deport foreigners who live here.

That's definitely the image a strong country and economy wants to present

The vote to leave was a vote for uncertainty and instability.

That's what people chose, so they can piss off moaning about it now that they got what they wanted.

isn't it somewhat of a self fulfilling prophecy?

Yes and no.

Example:
No financial passport = banks like Barclays / RBS / Lloyds have a very real problem.

It doesn't matter how Remainers act.

Example:
Agriculture - removal of the rebate is going to mean huge restructuring of the industry and related food industries.

It doesn't matter how Remainers act.

I could go on... And unless we have a strategy, pressing a50 immediately is going to have a shock effect on these industries anyway = even more uncertainty and would mean another big nose dive immediately.

I think that anxiety over it, has fuelled things somewhat, BUT thing have calmed once people have seen this is a long haul and a50 is going to be a while whilst we think of a Plan.

5.The future is very bright indeed.

It comes to something when you are stealing slogans off Orange phones which is now defunct

the Remain voters are going on about the economy and how the uncertainty is making it worse, but isn't it somewhat of a self fulfilling prophecy?

Only to a very limited extent I think. I was just listening to the French news and they were going on about how the uncertainty over the UK was terrible for the (French) economy. There's no Remain/Leave political agenda or Remain agitation here, and it's still how they analyse things.

I agree that this will be touted as an excuse for the failures of Brexit though. The narrative is already been being put into place - "Brexit was a sound idea, but it was sabotaged by Cameron/bitter Remain losers".

Yes,many people are worried and many people still think Brexit is a terrible idea. That's the reality of politics though, when you win a vote the opposition doesn't suddenly start agreeing with you, sometimes they still think that your plans are terrible. Leavers should have taken this into account, instead of assuming a national patriotic consensus for Brexit. Yet another reason why they were wholly unprepared and unrealistic.

Senior Tory source points out a constitutional problem with Crabb's leadership bid: "As a Welsh MP, he can't vote for English-only laws".

Ah Mr Cameron, this devolution thing. Working out well is it? Good to see that you thought all major political decisions in this country through taking into full account that Wales, Scotland and NI are equal partners.

facepalm

No leaver I know is moaning or at all concerned about the current situation or prospective economic problems ahead.

The Leave campaign leaders gave them permission to accept two years of economic turmoil and then all will be well.

As if anybody knows how long the fallout will be.

Johnson continues to be offensive and derogatory in The Telegraph, I see. He's got some brass neck, offering advice and slagging off those who are desperately worried about their country's future.

I think starting the Article 50 negotiations should be delayed till next year for one simple reason. They need to be in their initial stages at the point when UK economic indicators become available showing the state of the economy in the post-Referendum period. How the economy is doing should shape the negotiation options open to the UK, in particular the balance between control of immigration and access to the Single Market.

(I pulled a face though when I heard Tony Blair come out with something similar yesterday. Every time I hear Blair intervene I feel the Remain side lose some of its life-force.)

The uncertainty is being caused by a lack of plan, lack of consensus ("you lost so suck it up" to half the country), lack of checks and balances on the process (will there be a general election before the final settlement, what sort of arrangement with the EU is there a mandate for etc.), and actual real life impact on our futures. I work in academia and my team have recently been asked (very politely) to leave a proposal for a large Horizon 2020 project, when in the past we would probably have been asked to lead it. Nothing to do with my fears, all to do with the lack of certainty. Blaming "sore losers" for the uncertainty is not going to make it go away.

www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/thatchers-ghost-told-me-to-run-says-every-tory-leadership-candidate-20160704110156

Blair is a vampire isn't he?

Lots of people are speculating today that the Tory leadership contest will be over on wed, with May declared the winner, when Chilcot declared whilst Labour implodes.

Whilst that's in my thoughts, have a really good hunt around for bad news stories on Wednesday as PR people like to bury them on Big News Days. Oh and celebrity divorces.

Can't keep up at ALL with the speed of these threads, but wanted to give to all posting.

I want you to know your hard work is being read, appreciated and (slowly) digested.

Is Chilcot going to be this bad, really?

What is it going to tell us that we don't already know? Blair was ~creative with evidence because he thought it was his God-given mission to be Irak's liberator, what else is new?

Lots of people are speculating today that the Tory leadership contest will be over on wed, with May declared the winner

Can't decide if it's a good thing or a bad thing.

I think people should shift the post-referendum dissatisfaction towards asking for a new GE. With candidates asked to provide clear plans and roadmaps, this time, so people know what they're voting for.

Oh wait, there's no opposition. Scratch that.

Chilcot will be made to be that bad, even if it isn't.
(Personally I think it will be messy as each person mentioned in it was given right to reply, so its not just Blair head on the line, its all the other MPs involved).

norman smith ✔ ‎@BBCNormanS
Labour's @angelaeagle says she will "resolve this" if Jeremy Corbyn does not stand down

Has Angela Eagle decide not to be a jellyfish and is developing a spine?

Or will the Unions resolve the dispute first?

Tim Farron, bless him, is trying to be the opposition. I think he forgets he has 8 MPs....

I can almost see him going 'Oh hello! I'm over here. Hello? Anyone? Can you hear me?' in the midst of the Tory / Labour meltdown.

This is why he has been out a lot this week with a megaphone. He hasn't cottoned on to the fact that being louder isn't really going to help the situation.

I would recommend a nice well timed, little sex scandal, to get a bit of attention mate.

Trying to catch up after a weekend away but work getting in the way at the moment.
Love this thread - so informative & up-to-date

Is Chilcot going to be this bad, really?

I think it will be sound and fury signifying nothing. Everyone will look bad, and many people will be seen to be "naïve", but when it comes to whether there should be actions taken in response it'll be that lessons will need to be learned.

One of the many things I am cross about this morning is that the sodding Chilcott report, delayed so often, is going to be released now into the middle of a major political crisis.

Fucking brilliant.

And it will achieve the square root of fuck all.

Apparently this is going to be a year of impotent fury for me.

I keep searching Stephen Crabb and instead get Grammy award winning American Christian singer Jason Crabb.

Who bares a striking resemblance.

beards. all men with beards look the same

I'm not saying the Remain protests are the sole reason for the upset. I've not said that at all. I've said it's definitely contributing to it all. Look, I didn't vote Leave, just as I didn't vote in the Conservatives at the last GE. I did, grudgingly, accept the results and moved on. Look at the chaos they orchestrated, so you can't say that was a great result for the country either, to be honest.

I have nothing against people having a right to protest, but the longer this goes on, the more it divides the country. There does reach a point where it becomes more divisive than helpful. I think we're reaching that point.

Add to that the poor timing of the Labour party implosion and the Cameron triggering a leadership struggle in the Tories (thanks loads, Shiney Dave ), Scotland looking at another indyref (and apparently Wales has bounced about the idea as well), and last but not least, the Chilcott report, the country as a whole seems to be in a state of chaos.

And where is good old Cameron who fired the starting gun of all this, by the way?

Angela Eagle says she will 'resolve' Labour crisis if Corbyn doesn't go
Posted at
09:21
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norman smith ✔ @BBCNormanS
Labour's @angelaeagle says she will "resolve this" if Jeremy Corbyn does not stand down
9:13 AM - 4 Jul 2016