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Brexit

Boris outmaneovered. Et tu Gove & Corbyn? The Westministenders Hunger Games Continues

941 replies

RedToothBrush · 01/07/2016 12:08

Following the Machiavellian Govian shambles? Utterly gobsmacked at the Labour clusterfuck?

Who will strike next?

Who will the shadowy hand of Osborne back?
Can Gove be launched back into space and back to the planet he came from?
Can May save the country from almost certain doom?
Will Leadsom patronise us all to death (whilst silently stabbing people in the back with a sweet smile)?
Can Johnson make a decision he can stick to, and can we persuade him to give up being a politician?
Will Steven Crabb get rid of that god awful beard?

Will Corbyn shoot himself in the other foot?
Will Angela Eagle get a spine and just stand?
Who the fuck is Owen Smith?
Will the Blairites be foiled and damned?
Are momentum a bunch of thugs or a force for a better, for the people?

Will Farage disappear back under his rock?
Will people wake up to Arron Banks?
What will Dominic Cummings destroy next?

Have we seen a coup d'état?
How do we improve democracy and representation?

All these questions and more.
Sense of humour compulsory. No experience necessary though

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2670552-Has-Boris-been-outmanoeuvred?pg=1 Previous thread 1

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2672388-Has-Boris-been-outmanoevered-Will-someone-please-tell-me-who-is-in-charge Previous thread 2

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/a2673982-Have-Boris-and-Jeremy-been-stabbed-in-the-back-Please-can-we-have-some-leaders Previous thread 3

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Chalalala · 02/07/2016 11:57

DH and I have talked about leaving on and off, between us we have EU and US passports so we have options. Frankly, the shit summer we're having is not really helping either.

But I'm not sure we'd be gaining that much. It's not like the political atmosphere is any more reassuring in the US. It's not like France is any less xenophobic (although we're white so we'd feel it less, yay?).

I think the whole world is shit right now.

Happy weekend everyone!

Showmethewaytogohome · 02/07/2016 12:00

Yah Bore We've got to be in it to win it! And by that I mean join any party to influence (apart from the far right but I think I would like to infiltrate them.....bad plan as one look at me and I would be outed!)

Showmethewaytogohome · 02/07/2016 12:02

noble Maybe we could make the commons one big silent disco? Would make more sense and be more constructive!

MaterofDragons · 02/07/2016 12:08

BigChoc sorry you have come to this decision but totally understand. The day of the result, DH and I discussed leaving for Canada. About 10 seconds later we realised there's not a hope in hell of getting a visa for our sons who are autistic.

BigChocFrenzy · 02/07/2016 12:09

Having spend much of the past 25 years living on the continent, various places:

Hardly any xenophobia of the English variety. EU immigrants from other EU countries don't stir up any resentment, more regarded as cousins.
However, there is increasing and broad concern about MENA immigration, with different social values. This is fuelling the far right.
The 1 million invited in by Merkel followed shortly by Cologne and many small-scale incidents has seriously damaged her reputation.

The EU welfare & health systems are contributory, not based on residence like the UK, so there is not the resentment of immigrants from other EU countries affecting public services, because they clearly help fund it.

The major EU governments seem to have belatedly realised the scale of the concern and the referendum was a massive wakeup about the dangers of the far right winning the arguments.
So, we may see the UK referendum causing the EU to reform, be more responsive to ordinary European citizens and more successful as an entity.
It also helps that they are rid of their most bolshy member, who has been disruptive and blocking progress throughout the last 40 years.

Bad news for the UK:
The French presidential election is in 10 months and all that looks likely to prevent Marine LePen being in the runoff of the final 2 candidates is “look how the British have suffered since Brexit !"
Especially because LePen’s presidential campaign includes the demand for a Frexit referendum.

Hence, the current French gov desperately wants to prevent rule-bending that would grant the UK a special Brexit deal.
Merkel will be far more sympathetic to them than the UK, especially with so many Brexit politicians claiming / hoping the EU will collapse - that's just a pipedream, but an irritating one to them.

BoreOfWhabylon · 02/07/2016 12:11

Show I would have joined the Conservatives as well as Labour but no point, as wouldn't get a vote due to three-month rule Grin

MaterofDragons · 02/07/2016 12:15

And now we welcome Mikey! Mikey is the candidate selected for the WTAF party in this years Referendum 2016 Spelling Bee.

"Mikey, your word is CHARISMA."

"Charisma. C U N T. Charisma"

Well done Mikey, you nailed it!

Showmethewaytogohome · 02/07/2016 12:17

Bore Lib dems too? AM currently sticking with my LP membership - unless Steptoe (yes that is a good one whoever came up with it) refuses to budge

Who is his Harrrroollllld?

BigChocFrenzy · 02/07/2016 12:18

Dragons Really sorry to hear that Flowers
How sad that those with handicaps - and their families - are basically trapped in their country of origin.
I think social Darwinism is rising again after just a few decades of enlightenment. A nasty brutal world.

BigChocFrenzy · 02/07/2016 12:19

Take Gove at his word, when he assesses his own ability:

"In order to be prime minister of this country, you need to be an exceptional person... I don't think I have got that exceptional level of ability required for the job,"
"I don't want to be prime minister, I absolutely think David Cameron's a brilliant prime minister. Having close up how he does the job, I know I couldn't do it."
"There are lots of other folk, including in the Cabinet, who could easily be Prime Minster. I'm not one of them. I could not be Prime Minister. I'm not equipped to be Prime Minister’ "

GingerIvy · 02/07/2016 12:22

I am curious about one thing, and perhaps it's because I do not live in London, but I always thought Boris Johnson was well received in London. I'm seeing a lot of negative responses to him though, so I guess not? Is it possible that a fair few trusted Boris because he seemed a likeable enough person in what little news was seen of him at that point, but as they didn't live in London, they weren't aware of some of the bad feelings towards him?

Yeah, that was a bit muddled, but hopefully it made sense.

StatisticallyChallenged · 02/07/2016 12:28

I'm not sure Carney taking the opposite approach would have worked, although I can absolutely see the arguments for it. But we've recently been teetering on the brink of deflation, never mind inflation. Higher interest rates would probably have seen that tip over the edge. I don't think he has much choice now but to continue with this path though.

I agree though that in some places house prices are an absolute house of cards that successive governments have tried far too hard to keep high. And I say that as a homeowner - of course I don't want the value of my biggest asset to drop, I'm human! But we've been trying every trick in the book to keep people buying.

noblegiraffe · 02/07/2016 12:28

More about Paul McKenna and hypnotic leave ads from the daily mail

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3671210/Were-HYPNOTISED-leaving-EU-Ukip-s-Leave-campaign-consulted-TV-star-Paul-McKenna-Brexit-promotional-videos.html

The article describes how leave.eu used audio of Donald Trump to whip up anti-immigrant feeling.

noblegiraffe · 02/07/2016 12:30

I'm going to be keeping an eye on the headlines on the daily mail website today and tomorrow to see how they change. The Daily Mail was for Brexit, where the Mail on Sunday came out (rather surprisingly) for Remain. I wonder who they will back for the Tory leadership.

DoinItFine · 02/07/2016 12:37

BigChoc - we are birthday buddies 🎂

Us and Tom Cruise Grin

rookiemere · 02/07/2016 12:38

That's a really good point red, universal media approval for TM, interesting that a critical article was removed.

Perhaps they're bricking themselves that the Brexit vote went through ( primarily because they told people to vote that way) and now know the only vague hope of salvaging things is having the least bad option in the PM seat.

thecatfromjapan · 02/07/2016 12:43

It does seem that way, rookiemere. I swing between thinking this is a chaos-libertarian conspiracy and a complete fuck up.

Neither is good. Sad

iseenodust · 02/07/2016 12:44

The result for Alan Johnson's patch
"...west Hull, 17,753 voted to leave with 7,880 voting to stay...". Don't know how time he spent there as opposed to in London fronting the show.

BigChocFrenzy · 02/07/2016 12:51

I think Boris has made a career out of being an apparently likeable buffoon, loads of charm; he managed to wing it as London mayor by finding capable minions and with the local civil service basically carrying on. He sneaked in the 2nd hand water cannons when they weren't supervising him properly.

However, he was rumbled soon after Brexit:

  • The public saw he hadn't a clue what came next, were shocked that he hadn't bothered to plan and was contradicting himself wildly over immigration.

  • The Tory party realised he intended to ride a Remain victory into Downing St and wasn't a reliable ally for any group.
    I suspect Gove had the sudden realisation that Boris couldn't care less about Brexit. Gove is a true believer, very doctrinaire, so he immediately grabbed the reins back and decided to ensure Brexit himself.

The Fail in particular hate Boris because he is socially liberal (screws around openly too) whereas they are ideologically rightwing hardline Brexiters and also socially conservative - why they always hated Cameron too.
Cameron's equal marriage lawn infuriated social conservatives throughout the Tory Party, many of them activists.

BigChocFrenzy · 02/07/2016 12:54

Doinitfine CakeCakeChocolate We'll sing Happy Birthday to ourselves tomorrow Smile

RedToothBrush · 02/07/2016 13:02

That guardian picture essay showed Theresa May making a leadership speech in a blue tartan suit. Aside from it being awful, was it a message to the Scots?

Almost certainly. What politicians wear is very often deliberate because it carries certain messages and its impact is well know.

Why do you think that Jeremy Corbyn got shit about not being smart enough? (I don't think JC did this deliberately in this case - but I think it bothered the Conservatives as it showed something up).

Why do you think Nigel Farage wears that awful 'del boy' coat? (In his case I don't think its just because he has dreadful taste).

Why do you think Boris has been wearing a red tie a lot lately? (He seems to have previously had a taste for a light blue one. Red = socialism)

Why did Andrea Leadsom wear blue at the big debate? (She was wooing the older traditional conservative vote, particularly women)

Why did the official Leave campaign use Red signs for putting out side houses that were plan red with white text looked awfully like ones Labour would normally use, instead of using white ones with the red leave logo on?

Start thinking like this, and your start going wtf? But it is there, it is real, and it is well documented and very deliberate.

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BigChocFrenzy · 02/07/2016 13:03

I remember the fallout after we crashed out of the ERM:

Mortgage interest sky high for many months, 15% for a while, ouch.
Many 1000s of people then who couldn't keep up payments were forced to sell with negative equity in a crashed property market. Some of those never fully recovered financially and will have lower pensions, renting in old age etc

Also, many businesses crashed. Nobody spending.

Carney is trying to avoid all that and also to ensure any house price reduction is gradual, to avoid mc panic.
Remember too, if people can't sell houses without ruin, then they don't have the flexibility to move to new jobs, not good for the economy

howtorebuild · 02/07/2016 13:12

I think it's important to point out the only London borough in the west that voted leave, was the borough shared by BoJo and John McDonnell, what does that tell you?

RedToothBrush · 02/07/2016 13:13

Someone's posted this article on another thread but its worthy of repeating here because of what I've said up thread:
www.theguardian.com/politics/commentisfree/2016/jun/21/donald-trump-politics-of-disgust

Read it THEN watch this Leave.eu video below.

Its uses colour, visual stimulation, effects to voice and repetition to reinforce feelings of distrust in George Osborne to dehumanise him further and to condition anyone watching it to trust anything he says, even less. The video FEELS emotionally, visually and vocally jarring and uncomfortable. Its supposed to...

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thecatfromjapan · 02/07/2016 13:14

BigChoc Sad

Red great post earlier.

Still haven't caught up ...

Swipe left for the next trending thread