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Brexit

The Remain camp's vile apocalyptic narrative

346 replies

mamamea · 29/06/2016 19:07

A lot of Remainers seem to believe that 52% of the country are evil racists. Minor racist incidents are being made into front page news.

Some people seem to think that racism was invented last Thursday. Confirmation bias is a powerful thing - the media always have a story to push, and they will seize on any incident that fits that, while rejecting those that don't.

The police have come out and said that the media and the ludicrous Remainers who are determined that our country has turned into a post-apocalyptic hellhole in the space of 24 hours, are talking bollocks, frankly. Facts, however, are not all that important, when there is a 'our country is going to become a hellhole in the space of a few months' narrative to push because people have not got their way.

Remain insist that we are going bust, or perhaps have gone bust already. Everything that will happen in the future, on any subject, is going to be terrible - we will be gassed due to hitherto EU-inhibited pollution, we will lose all our employment rights and become slaves, The Troubles will restart in Northern Ireland, and so the narrative goes on and on and on, with any p.

I have never seen such an absurd response to ANY event in Britain, but for me it absolutely confirms what I have long since suspected about the so-called liberal left - that they are anything but liberal, they only accept THEIR viewpoint, and anything other than this will be ruthlessly slandered and derided. Similar responses are typically seen when the Conservative party wins an election - but this surpasses anything seen after 2010 or 2015. The Remain camp are organising demonstrations which they, absurdly, claim are supposed to demonstrate togetherness, but have names like 'Manchester stays' (which clearly demonstrate that they are intended to exclude the 52% of the population that wants to Leave, and indeed could be interpreted as an ultimatum).

No-one from the Reman side seems interested in genuinely working together to write a positive 'Leave' story for the future (nobody's saying, for instance, 'let's emulate Norway', they instead if they do reference Norway, it's to further deprecate the Leavers by saying how stupid it would be to Leave only to go with the Norwegian model, which is just the same (except of course it can't be because they are determined that Leave is a highway to hell, so they must hold the contrary position of insisting that Leave position x is not worth the trouble, while Leave position y is evil)). They prefer instead engage in nihilistic rhetoric about racism and economic doom, and fling insults at those involved with Leave. (Leave leader X is posh, Leave leader Y went to private school, Leave voters are stupid, inbred and racist, so old they aren't entitled to an opinion and should probably be subject to compulsory euthanasia, and so on and on and on)

It's astonishing that the 48% are trying to divide and insult the 52%, and to insist that we are doomed. Do people really think this is a way to deal with people with different opinions? I know it has been tried in the past - clearly quite a lot of people object, for instance, to mass immigration from Eastern Europe (for which public consent would not have been given, hence it was never sought), and the rhetoric is always much the same - "oh look, this person who objects is a racist, game over 'we win'". This 'you are a racist' device has been successfully employed for years, but it turns out, in reality, that it never convinced - the majority of the country, when directly asked, said 'No' to the EU and to globalism. Yet apparently the Remain camp still wants to continue with this tactic, even though it has clearly failed. No need to engage with people's concerns, when you can just pull a Gordon Brown and say 'bigoted woman', and move swiftly onward.

What planet are Remain living on, when their narrative is rejected by the biggest popular mandate in living memory, and yet they still think it will pay off to push it, but now with an added side of 'how very dare you, you racist inbred half-wit'? Clearly this totalitarian illiberal liberalism is a very powerful force in Western society, but we have rejected it by a clear majority, despite Remain employing every slander it could think of prior to the referendum (if you vote Leave, you are complicit in murder, and all the rest).

How long will this go on? For how long can Remain continue to deny reality, that they are on the wrong side of history? Will they try to add 'an uneducated Leave voter is only worth 3/5 of a degree-educated Remain voter' to their existing 'a 70 year old Leave voter is only worth 1/3 of a 20-year-old Remain voter' arsenal of denial?

OP posts:
SpringingIntoAction · 30/06/2016 21:00

People are living on quicksand, nobody knows what the requrements will be for EU people living here so there is no peace to be had, just uncertainty. Can't you even begin to get how that might feel? if you even half tried you wouldn't be so flippant

Nicola's told you people can stay

Dodgy Dave's told you people can stay

The Human Rights Act allows people to stay

International Law allows people to stay.

What do you want - someone to ring you up every 10 minutes to reassure you that you can stay?

TheElementsSong · 30/06/2016 21:03

Hmm Yeah, just get over it, you pathetic whinging losers! Suck it up! We won! Get a grip! Stop making things up! Are you people deaf? We've said you CAN STAY and ARE WELCOME! Hmm

/sarcasm

AdultingIsNotWhatIExpected · 30/06/2016 21:04

Yet the Home office made significant changes in the run up to the referendum which has made it much harder for EU citizenships to get proof of residency, and much harder to get naturalisation.

People's own MPs are replying to their enquiries confirming that there are no guarentees at this point

And one of our potential new PMs wants to get rid of the ECHR ASAP

Fawful · 30/06/2016 21:09

Springingintoaction, the official CAB advice is that 'nothing has changed yet. We'll tell you when you when it does'.
AIBU to not find it v reassuring?

AdultingIsNotWhatIExpected · 30/06/2016 21:13

What about the home offices track record for deporting spouses and parents of british citizens?

Shall we just ignore that? and trust that the home office will be fair?

Mooingcow · 30/06/2016 21:47

nobody knows what the requrements will be for EU people living here so there is no peace to be had

Employers are, as I said, looking at ways to safeguard those people. Nobody wants to lose valuable skills in this climate.

Being blinded by anxiety and having meltdowns at work is, I'm afraid, going to achieve nothing and make you look like a bit of an attention seeker.

Unless you have greater constitutional insight than the experts I saw today, in which case do share it, I believe that nothing can happen for two years, and possibly up to five.

Those with high emotions may burn out long before then.

AdultingIsNotWhatIExpected · 30/06/2016 21:53

Calling people who have genuine fears "attention seekers" just makes you devoid of all empathy

"nothing will happen for two years" - how is that reassuring? Oh yeah, well the rug might be pulled from under your whole life, but it won't happen for two years. K.

AdultingIsNotWhatIExpected · 30/06/2016 21:54

just makes you sound….

BoulevardOfBrokenSleep · 30/06/2016 22:04

"Employers are, as I said, looking at ways to safeguard those people. Nobody wants to lose valuable skills in this climate"

Right, but under current circumstances all this stuff is currently in the hands of the Tory party & its MPs, no-one else gets a say for another 4 years. Yay democracy!

Apparently one of our PM candidates is fine about ditching free market/free movement and hence kicking out EU nationals.

Maybe a bit unfair to blithely reassure people their jobs are safe despite their lack of british passport?

BoulevardOfBrokenSleep · 30/06/2016 22:06

And have you missed the bit where we have up to 2 years to finalise terms? Not 2-ish, not 5-ish, up to 2.

TheElementsSong · 30/06/2016 22:08

Calling people who have genuine fears "attention seekers" just makes you devoid of all empathy

Exactly Adulting... I've seen these dismissive responses over and over again on so many threads. People are worried about their families being torn apart, possibly having to give up the lives they have built here, feeling unwelcome and alien. I imagine not many people, faced with those possibilities, however remote, would feel satisfied with "Oh well, it'll probably be fine."

The Home Office rules for who can and can't stay keep shifting and changing (always towards the stricter end), hurdles being thrown up suddenly and with no notice.

I see no reason to blindly trust any of the authorities on Springing's list because (1) None of them can know what rules will be in place in 2 years' time; (2) The direction of travel of all the potential Tory party leaders is to restrict immigration (they all cite the concerns of Leave voters Hmm); (3) It's bloody ironic that Leave posters are asking people to now trust the very politicians we were told not to trust before the referendum.

SpringingIntoAction · 30/06/2016 22:10

Springingintoaction, the official CAB advice is that 'nothing has changed yet. We'll tell you when you when it does'.
AIBU to not find it v reassuring?

Of course, I always place the advice of the volunteers in my local CAB well above that of

Cameron, Sturgeon, Human Rights lawyers, immigration experts, International Law

all of which have clearly said - everyone stays put.

bkgirl · 30/06/2016 22:15

Well done Mamamea
(bar the minor racist comment which I know you in no way meant to denegrate ANY racist incident)
I totally agree. The arrogance of remainers to think every one who voted remain is racist! They were even racist themselves thinking it! Like an inverted snobbery. Total crap. Plenty of leavers were not WASP's.
Obviously.

Mooingcow · 30/06/2016 22:15

who have genuine fears "attention seekers" just makes you devoid of all empathy

I said those adults having public meltdowns at work and saying they were blinded by grief would look like attention seekers.

I said that employers are looking at ways of safeguarding EU employees to the greatest possible extent.

I also said that employers are finding it difficult to do so when they are concurrently dealing with people 'overcome by grief' at the Referendum result.

I may sound devoid of empathy but I think you'll find I'm chock full of practical support for business.

And if that includes exhorting the grief-stricken to get an emotional grip while employers look at ways of helping those directly and adversely affected in the workplace, so be it.

BoulevardOfBrokenSleep · 30/06/2016 22:16

springin do any of those you cite actually make the laws for the UK? Or have any substantial input after October?

Remember we're in a post-expert world now.
And apparently we can ditch all that human rights bollocks now too.
And the UK has no constitution so changes basically go on what you can get through parliament, and fuck knows what that is in these days of unbridled 'freedom'.

BoulevardOfBrokenSleep · 30/06/2016 22:19

mooingcow Employers now have fuck all say in who stays and who goes. Just like the rest of us.

Yeah, we can lobby, but the difference between lobbying and being a sore loser is apparently wafer-thin Hmm

AdultingIsNotWhatIExpected · 30/06/2016 22:21

he arrogance of remainers to think every one who voted remain is racist! They were even racist themselves thinking it! Like an inverted snobbery. Total crap.

Nope, most remainers I know are not calling people racist for voing Leave
They're calling them racist because after voting leave, they have then gone on to become racism apologists and even victim blamers and racism denyers. And have shown zero humanity in response to reports of racist abuse, including to children.

That is racist behaviour, even if you're not the one changing racist brexit songs or posting racist notes through letterboxes, and it's deeply disappointing and very hard to get over when it's people you know

SpringingIntoAction · 30/06/2016 22:26

springin do any of those you cite actually make the laws for the UK?

Last time I looked Cameron was still PM and Parliament has not fortunately not legisalted against international law to ask any group to leave the country

Or have any substantial input after October?
I am sure Human Rights law and International law will still exist after Oct and Mrs Strurgeon will probably still be stirring it up in Scotland.

Remember we're in a post-expert world now.

No, we're in the post EU-funded academics churning out pro-EU propaganda disguised as expertise world now, thank goodness.

And apparently we can ditch all that human rights bollocks now too.
Shame you want to do that. I don't, Mrs may doesn't. Don't you believe in human rights?

And the UK has no constitution so changes basically go on what you can get through parliament, and fuck knows what that is in these days of unbridled 'freedom'.

And that takes us to the very heart of why leave won and why Remain lost and why Remainers will always scratch their heads in puzzlement at why that was.

The unwritten British Constitution is flexible and adaptable. You can do anything you want, until someone tells you you can't.

whereas in the EU, you can only do what the EU has prescribed and must not attempt to do anything that is not specifically permitted.

One way (British) upholds freedom and innovation

The EU way is constraint and supression.

The clever people chose to leave and be free

Mooingcow · 30/06/2016 22:31

mooingcow Employers now have fuck all say in who stays and who goes. Just like the rest of us.

Except that they are being assured nobody who works here now will be thrown out; there are guidelines for the paperwork and visas and necessary criteria to be filled and are working with EU employees to establish rights to remain well in advance of the final exit package.

Immigration law has been a movable feast for years; Tier 2/3/PBS, there've been no guarantees.

The employers I met all wanted minimum staff disruption, for their EU employees to remain and for the rest to just get on with it as there are currently no certainties.

MelanieCheeks · 30/06/2016 22:33

I have staff at work who are still struggling to come to terms with the uncertainty we are facing. None of them are foreign nationals. It would be callous of me to tell them to just get a grip, suck it up, and get on with it. I DID speak to them all on Friday morning in a keep calm and carry on spirit, but I am aware that each of them will be experiencing this situation differently, and if they need some space and time to vent their feelings on such a huge, historic issue, then I'm not going to ignore or dismiss that.

Mooingcow · 30/06/2016 22:39

Melanie, that s great and most employers are doing the same. It's vital to reassure and manage the inevitable concerns.

I do think, though, that meltdowns and fights and being blinded by grief are disproportionate reactions and can only perpetuate an already volatile situation. There is nothing to be gained from emotional incontinence and I do not believe the workplace an appropriate arena for overt political displays of emotion.

I applaud you if you can manage it, but I don't believe it is helpful for either workforce or management when there are more practical issues to address.

TheElementsSong · 30/06/2016 23:08

No, we're in the post EU-funded academics churning out pro-EU propaganda disguised as expertise world now, thank goodness.

Just straight out call people you don't agree with corrupt then, from behind a keyboard.

And again with calling on people to trust Cameron now, when he wasn't to be trusted before - not to mention that nobody is going to feel particularly reassured that because immigration rules are currently unchanged (that's not exactly a huge surprise, is it) nobody knows what they will be like in 2 years and how they will qualify people for the right to stay. Frankly it would be pretty foolish for someone facing uncertainty of this magnitude within 2 years to not be worrying and scrambling to get paperwork in order.

SpringingIntoAction · 30/06/2016 23:15

There is nothing to be gained from emotional incontinence and I do not believe the workplace an appropriate arena for overt political displays of emotion.

Absolutely.

We didn't hear a whisper from our management after major tragedies such as 9/11 or 7/7 when there were horrendous fatalities .

You lost a vote, Get a grp

noblegiraffe · 30/06/2016 23:18

You lost a vote, Get a grp

you know, I think people are pissed off because they have lost more than a fucking vote.

It wasn't a Twitter poll you know? It was a vote with actual consequences.

AdultingIsNotWhatIExpected · 30/06/2016 23:19

So, to sum up, we've not learnt anything from history, e.g. the peace process in Ireland.

Since when has a rift in society been healed and not made worse by belittling and silencing the other side's feelings?

Because our society is torn apart, and it could get worse or it could get better…

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