Has Boris been outmanoevered? Will someone please tell me who is in charge?

[RedToothBrush]

Thread two from

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2670552-Has-Boris-been-outmanoeuvred?pg=1

Does anyone really think that Corbyn was inspirational and fired up his troops during the referendum campaign?

Labour campaigners have consistently been reporting that he was a problem on the doorstep, that core Labour voters didn't see him as electable. Granted that's not hard evidence, but it does seem to be a pattern.

ITV news. 'We made a terrible mistake': Tory minister Anna Soubry is close to tears as she addresses an anti-Brexit rally

"There are a LOT of people that voted Leave that are being accused of racism and lack of intelligence and so on."

Yeah, the problem is, when you say 'Yay, Leave won, now we can get rid of the immigrants!' that makes you look a bit xenophobic. When you are quoted in a national newspaper/on tv saying it, that makes you look not terribly bright. (not you personally)

Anna Soubry was the one who said a few days ago that Boris didn't expect to win, it was a leadership bid.

Chalala
Clearly neither was DC inspirational or fired up troops. Or Alan Johnson. Or Margaret Hodge who started throwing stones yet had one of lowest "remain" votes in her borough. labour "remain" vote was fairly strong but clearly not strong enough. Believe me if there was a more barnstorming Labour candidate I'd be interested. But throw him out for who? Angela Eagle? Bless her, but she wouldn't inspire me to follow her into a sweet shop even.
And while Labour deposes Corbyn and scratches round wondering who they can get past both PLP and a pissed off membership, Johnson has his coronation and gets his "I've made Britain great again" headlines without challenge.
Labour is handing it to them on a plate with their in fighting rather every shadow cabinet member coming out and trying to demolish their opposite number while Tories split down middle on Europe

Boulevard That's ok, I didn't think you meant me personally. I didn't vote for Leave, and haven't said anything bad about immigrants.

We haven't actually left the EU but they are acting like we have already because of the vote.

Can the Labour Party act like Corbyn has resigned because of the no-confidence thing? Put someone else up in PMQ? Freeze him out of meetings?

Juncker stated he had placed a ban on any negotiations (formal or informal - he specified that) before A50.

Any negotiations with Britain.

But A50 is the formal declaration that you intend to leave. The point of banning negotiations before A50 is to stop the UK entering into a war of attrition with the EU over the terms of the deal. The negotiations in question regard the deal which the UK would get were it to leave. The question of Scotland remaining part of the EU is a separate albeit connected issue.

I see no issue with Scotland discussing their continued membership as an independent entity within the EU prior to any formal communication of A50. They are not negotiating a deal as an entity outside of the EU.

waitingfortax.com/2016/06/28/the-big-green-button-bill/

Interesting

Obi, what sort of evidence? There's a bit around from the referendum - like the Wales Stronger In campaign's account of trying to get Corbyn and team to engage but failing, etc. None unbiased obviously.

Everybody knew Boris was going for PM though, surely nobody thought his end goal was actually to leave the EU? He wanted Remain to win narrowly and to stage a coup very similar to the one Corbyn is facing.

After the dinner with Dave last night, Angela Merkel said

“We did not discuss the possibility that the UK will not invoke article 50, and I consider this an impossibility.”

Oh, Angela, don't give up on us yet! Come on to Mumsnet for a web chat and we'll put you right!

Of course she has considered it. She, like every other national leader in the EU, just wants Britain to get a move on.

BBC News live feed.
Boris Johnson remains the candidate to beat and while there are a lot of Tories who would rather vote, frankly, for a dead sheep, I can't see how the Anyone But Boris brigade are going to keep him off the ballot.

What you will see over the next 48 hours is Boris Johnson rebranding himself as Boris Johnson Mark 1 - the socially liberal mayor of London - and discarding Boris Johnson Mark 2, the populist Brexiteer.

And, significantly, he is already attracting support from prominent One Nation Tories like Nicolas Soames, and prominent Remainers like Liz Truss, who actually stood beside George Osborne when he issued his "dossier of doom", predicting the likely disaster that would result from Brexit.

Analysis: Is Labour an alternative government or a social movement?
BBC LIve News feed
Norman Smith
Assistant political editor
Posted at
07:05
What happens next for Labour? Well, quite likely civil war. Jeremy Corbyn has shown he's not going to go and even if he wanted to, he's got people around him who've pretty much locked him in a room and thrown away the key.

Today I expect an official challenger to emerge - most likely Angela Eagle as she's seen as having broader appeal that Mr Corbyn's deputy, Tom Watson. I don't expect that to happen until after prime minister's questions because rebel MPs will want to use that occasion to show just how little support Mr Corbyn has from the benches behind him.

Now, in normal times the trade unions would step forward and say to Jeremy Corbyn, "You've got to step aside." But that hasn't happened, so you've got a civil war, pitting Labour MPs against the unions and membership.

The former believe their job is to defend working people by presenting themselves as an alternative government. The latter, including Mr Corbyn himself, believe their job is to bring about a social movement, an uprising, to further the interests of working people.

BBC Live News Feed

Sturgeon heads to Brussels as SNP claims title of official Opposition

First Minister Nicola Sturgeon is to meet European Parliament president Martin Schulz to discuss Brexit.

Last week's referendum saw the UK vote by 52% to 48% to leave the EU while Scotland voted by 62% to 38% to stay.

She had been hoping to talk to President of the European Council Donald Tusk but he said it was not appropriate at this time.

As an aside, back in Parliament, Ms Sturgeon's party, the SNP, is claiming it now forms the official Opposition because its Westminster leader Angus Robertson has the support of more MPs than Jeremy Corbyn.

Senior SNP MP Pete Wishart said Parliamentary rule book Erskine May states that the Opposition must be "prepared to assume office", and in his words, "Labour can't any more".

Liz Truss is someone I can believe is an early prototype for an artificial person.

Lots to think about today, and looks to be plenty of things going on.

Interesting that Tusk told NS that it wasn't appropriate to talk with her at this time.

And the SNP the Opposition? Is that possible?

Also interesting to note that while Tusk would not meet with NS as he felt it wasn't appropriate, Juncker is going to meet with NS today.

Liz Truss is someone I can believe is an early prototype for an artificial person.

NS's also going to meet with Schulz.

We should get a GEvand a second referendum. Even Farage would agree, were the vote the other way, so why not because of such a close vote for Brexit?

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/nigel-farage-eu-referendum_uk_576e6585e4b08d2c56393f12

Cameron has already stated there are no plans for a second referendum.

I note that a number of people have quoted Farage on that particular thing. I love the cherry-picking that goes on there. "He's vile, he's a liar, he's racist, you shouldn't trust anything he says... but oh wait, he says if it's close we should have another referendum, so obviously that's correct!"

We need a GE and a party to stand on a 'Remain' ticket, saying that if elected they will NOT invoke article 50 and try to rebuild our relationship with the EU.

Is there a party offering this? If there is I'll join it, I don't give a shit about any of their other policies.