Has Boris been outmanoevered? Will someone please tell me who is in charge?

[RedToothBrush]

Thread two from

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2670552-Has-Boris-been-outmanoeuvred?pg=1

Just a joke, she used one of MN's favourites "Get a grip".

Ginger - he was voted in by the members, but there were a lot of new members who joined up specifically to vote for him. These new members seem to like demonstrations and petitions and posting stuff on social media, but don't do anything to engage with people who do not already share their views.
The MPs have to deal with their constituencies, who are not Labour members, for the most part - there's only about 500k members, I think, so the MPs will hear a much wider range of opinions.

Jassy - see this is where I think both parties went wrong. Neither Cameron or Corbyn should have been heading the Remain/Leave/Whatever. Make their choice clear? Sure. But the campaigns should have been headed by specific higher ups in the party, while Cameron and Corbyn were sorting out what to do in the event of... (whichever result).

If I'm honest, I would have suspected Cameron to be in LEAVE based on all his Anti-EU leanings over the last few years, so seeing him in the Remain campaign was odd to me.

Sorry to dash the hopes of any David Miliband fans - I saw an article in the Guardian showing he's up for a top job in the US government if Hilary wins.

I wonder if he might prefer Prime Minister of the UK over a White House staffer job though?

UnGoogleable - doubt it, White House staffer has got to be easier than sorting out this mess!

GingerIvy I didn't follow this very closely, I'll admit. But what I got from it at the time was that he became the darling of champagne socialists and far-left activists, many of which signed up as Labour members just so they could elect him. Not to say that "traditional" Labour members didn't vote for him either, but it was a huge factor.

So the way I see it, Corbyn's support base embodies the "too much Hackney, not enough Hull" problem. He is hugely popular with prosperous intellectuals and hardcore leftwingers, but doesn't resonate at all with Labour's working class base, ie the millions of voters who actually elect the Labour MPs. And yet the former get to dictate that he stays on.

This is all based on my probably flawed understanding of what went down, by the way, so if I'm wrong, please anyone feel free to correct me.

"That would be extremely odd seeing as everyone thought Remain would win"

But did they? I seem to remember that Leave were winning until Jo Cox's murder (which is less than two weeks ago - unbelievable) - I might need to check that.

The BBC have reported on the Channel 4 news interviewing Nigel Farage

He is also asked about incidents of racial abuse following the referendum, which he says he "utterly" condemns.

"The abuse is going both ways," he adds. "There are people who have voted to Leave who are getting horrible things said to them."

I'm going to try and get the exact quote here, but that sounds suspiciously like an admission that he believes that racists voted leave...

It also sounds dangerously like its a justification of racism, because Leave voters are being abused by Remain voters.

I'm so disappointed with Corbyn. He's lost the confidence of 174 of his MPs and clearly can't lead the party but would prefer to put everyone through a leadership contest at the moment when there is a total vacuum of any sort of government.

I seem to remember that Leave were winning until Jo Cox's murder (which is less than two weeks ago - unbelievable) - I might need to check that.
As I remember it, Leave pulled ahead about 2 weeks before the vote and it was only on the day that the polls - and the bookies - swung back predicted a very narrow win for staying. So why people are now saying no-one expected it is beyond me.

I seem to remember that Leave were winning

No, most of the polls had remain to win. There was a Leave surge, but nothing consistent.

ig.ft.com/sites/brexit-polling/

Too close to call at the end. I certainly had no complacency that Remain would win.

"That would be extremely odd seeing as everyone thought Remain would win"

They didn't.

The bookies DID spot it. A William Hill spokesman said that 'at the back of his mind' the fact that 75% bets were placed on Leave in small bets even though the majority of money had gone on Remain had made him wonder.

But the bookies only fix odds that makes them the most money, and are not there to predict the result.

I don't think it sounds like justification of racism. He's right in that regard. There are a LOT of people that voted Leave that are being accused of racism and lack of intelligence and so on. That's no more acceptable than the racism. Basically, the whole country needs to be put in time out.

That's how I remember it Floisme

David Cameron called this (stupid) referendum.

Of course as the leader of the party of government he needed to back whatever result he thought was right.

This whole shambolic disaster has been brought about due to his tactical and strategic incompetence.

Could unions intervene over Corbyn?

Iain Watson
Political correspondent
Posted at
19:47
I am told it is unlikely – though these days the unlikely has a habit of happening – that we will get a formal challenge to Jeremy Corbyn tonight.

As one opponent put it, "he should stew in his own juice" and see how uncomfortable it is for him in the Commons chamber to have so few MPs on his side. The hope is that he ignores the advice of his advisers and throws in the towel.

I hear strong rumours of a meeting between key union supporters of Labour – and a likely attempt will be made to get Jeremy Corbyn to go.

Under this scenario, Tom Watson would become interim leader and either lead the party into a genuinely snap election or oversee a proper leadership contest to a more relaxed timescale open to all-comers, rather than an Eagle/Corbyn battle.

As things stand if Jeremy Corbyn still digs in his heels and MPs must unite behind one alternative, Angela Eagle looks the most likely… but don’t rule Tom Watson out just ye

Doin but that's what I'm saying. DID Cameron think it was the right decision? He's certainly done his share of bashing the EU, it's been mentioned by the EU a number of times in the last few days.

Yup, there's been a lot of talk about the education levels of leavers compared to stayers but that man had the best education money could buy and yet he's still an idiot.

and I'll heartily agree on his incompetence.

Neither Angela Eagle or Tom Watson are what the party needs now IMO and I don't see either of them winning a vote against Corbyn. This is a fucking mess.

Sorry that was following on from DoinItFine - fast moving thread!

And I still can't keep up

Angela Eagle god it gets worse

The unions are all supporting Corbyn, aren't they? How does that fit into this?