To urge you to write to your MP today if you wish to remain

[SybilEngineer]

The margin by which Leave won is too small to base such a huge decision on. This needs to be debated further especially now it's clear many people based their decision on misrepresentations made by Brexit campaigners on immigration and spending on NHS or made a protest vote.

Johnson is continuing with the myths claiming Britain will still be in Europe. Of course we will be geographically but that's all!

The referendum was advisory and not legally binding. If you want to stay in the EU please email your MP today.

We have one man doing all the trade negotiations?!

I might agree if turn out was small but actually it was very high.

Not one man but a very experienced ex trade minister here to help our trade negoitiating teams - I imagine they will be recruiting soon, they will have to! We don't have sufficient numbers of people with the right skills in the current government, however there are plenty of people with the right skills in the private sector eg in finance and energy who would be well suited to this type of role.

I haven't read the whole thread but if the vote had gone the other way by the same margin, fecking Farage and his Brexit mates would be campaigning for another referendum.

I have signed the petition and written to my Tory Brexiter MP. I.e. I have done the only things I can do at this juncture.

Farage? He had nothing to do with the official Leave campaign, and isn't an MP. he was just constantly put forward by the media, quite possibly in an attempt to discredit all the moderate leavers out there.

I wrote to my MP (a Tory remainer).

I also signed the petition.

Why not make voices heard? People voting leave as a protest vote when they meant remain etc. etc. have made the vote a bit of a farce.

We can't decide our children's futures based on a farce.

Also, it was an advisory referendum, not a legally binding one. That was the only safeguard we had on it. There is no requirement to act.

We can take our time. We don't even have to trigger article 50. DD1 and I were looking at some of the Lisbon Treaty articles. Despite rumblings from Juncker, it does look as though it wouldn't be that easy for the EU to throw us out. More likely that they could block some of our powers for a time, but it seemed a little woolly.

FGS are the Remainers so intent on over ruling the referendum that they are inciting a civil war?

And I am not being blase about this - the opinions of the people have been taken. Disregard them at your peril.

This was a democratic vote. Nothing is more valuable. If this democracy is abused...........

People voting leave as a protest vote when they meant remain

I think many of the "I regret voting leave" comments are from disingenuous remain voters.

As for the referendum being only "advisory", did you vote in the belief that the verdict would be upheld?

It's a good job we didn't have social media in WW2 or we'd have panicked and surrendered within a week We do need to be careful not to believe so much doom and gloom that we undermine ourselves. I am beginning to question the motives of the media too in being so unremittingly negative

This is only day 3 and we all knew this would take time. It is great news that Francis Maude will assist negotiations, I heard him interviewed at the weekend and was very impressed.
We also have to look at the other side of this. If there was to be a reversal now, do we think the EU would welcome us back with more concessions to show their relief? No. They would nail us down into far worse a situation than the one we were in previously; more contributions and less influence for sure so, trite though it may seem, those people saying we have to keep calm and press ahead have a point

Just to say thank you for starting the thread, OP. I had already written to my (pro-Remain) MP before I read your post. My own view is that until Article 50 is triggered, there is still hope. And the more encouragement the pro-Remain MPs get (bearing in mind that they are a large majority within Parliament), the more likely they are to find the courage to say, "No, we are not just going to go along with this referendum result, knowing that if you took out all the Leave voters who were just using it as a protest vote, it is pretty obvious there would have been no majority for Leave."

Please ignore the flak from those who seem unable to get that the referendum was not a General Election (in relation to which I agree that you have to accept the result) where the result can be changed back in five years' time if people change their minds.

And for those going on about living in a democracy, yes we live in a parliamentary democracy in which the vast majority of MPs are pro-Remain.

Https:www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/27/stop-brexit-mp-vote-referendum-members-parliament-act-europe

Has some good info on the benefits of writing to your mp, including stressing that "Our democracy does not allow, much less require, decision-making by referendum... Democracy has never meant the tyranny of the simple majority... By November, there may be other very good reasons for MPs to refuse to leave Europe."

And it's not triggered by the referendum - MPs still have to vote it through "mindful of their constitutional duty to do what is best for Britain" as that is how our democracy works.

So anyone shouting that we have to leave or aren't being democratic might be ignorant of or ignoring the whole process.

So far we have had a referendum with a 52-48 split. That in itself doesn't oblige us to leave.

This was a democratic vote. Nothing is more valuable. If this democracy is abused...........

It was a democratic vote in a referendum, yes (well, as long as you accept that the amount of lies campaigned with is democratic, but that's for another conversation).

What happens next is also democratic, the way we do it - the MPs vote in parliament. So, writing to our MPs is in no way undemocratic or undermining the referendum. That's happened, doesn't mean that I now have to sit on my hands.

And say what exactly?? The country has decided and sadly, less than 36% of all eligible voters agree with us

It is the duty of elected MPs to do the best for their constituents and the country.

The referendum is not legally binding, Parliament still needs to pass a law to allow the country to leave. There has to be discussion in Parliament and a vote, you can ask your MP to vote against this legislation. They do not have to vote, but you can ask them

This was a democratic vote. Nothing is more valuable. If this democracy is abused...........

This keeps coming up from Brexiters, and nobody ever answers the question: is there anything you would fight for, in the face of a 52/48 split, or does 'democracy' and 'the people have spoken' unquestionably supersede your personal conscience?

If there was a successful 52/48 referendum to ban abortion, would you protest (using the democratic means available) or would you sit down, shrug, and accept the people had spoken?

Not saying Brexit = abortion. Just trying to see if you have a line where 'the people have spoken' does not cross.

We do need to be careful not to believe so much doom and gloom that we undermine ourselves.

I think if you accept that leavers were not brainwashed by the media and voted out for very good reasons, you also have to accept that remainers voted in for very good reasons and are now also worried for very good reasons other than your perceived media negativity.

My profession is now under threat, increasingly so. The business I worked so hard to build up could go up in smoke, just like that. My family's security and stability is under threat. This is precisely what we were worried about. Nobody can say how much financial instability the country will go through for how long, how hard a recession will hit, whether the UK itself will break up, what that could mean.

I'm sticking with my doom and gloom for now, thanks. I just can't see a bright side.

As to the value of 'democratic' referendums, I've said this before on here but they're banned in Germany precisely because they don't deliver democracy.

In 1933 Germany held a 'democratic referendum' which voted to leave the League of Nations by 95.1% of voters with a turnout of 96.3%.

Leaving was very popular. But was it actually a good idea? You could argue the voters were informed and knew what they were voting for. And yet did they? Did they have any awareness of what the consequences would be, or the true motives behind the referendum?

The Nazis later used referenda to approve the abolition of the presidency, the remilitarisation/encorporation of the Rhineland and the annexation of Austria.

The upshot is that referenda are not reliable tools of democracy, and they are very easy to manipulate.

Exactly, AuntDotsie. But it's almost impossible to fight this 'oh, it's all doom and gloom and exaggeration' attitude.

Potential Brexit > warnings of economic and political chaos > 'it's just project fear'

Actual Brexit > economic and political chaos > 'oh, it's just the media: bad news always sells' (actually, patriotic jubilance, victory, smugness and pictures of pretty girls waving Union Jacks is also a safe bet for newspaper sales and clickbait, so the fact that even the Daily fecking Mail has been a bit gloomy should be an indicator that things are going badly).

Years post-Brexit > recession and lasting political consequences > 'well, it would've been fine, but you had such a negative attitude. Really, the whole thing's your fault'.

Thanks OP, I'll be writing to my MP to ask that he vote against serving article 50, as part of the democratic process that has to be undertaken as part of any exit from the EU. The referendum was advisory and only one part of this process. Parliament now has its own very important part to play in considering what is best for the country and voting accordingly.

And yes, if Remain had won I would fully expect leave voters to be writing to their MPs to ask for the reverse. This is part of a representative democracy and we are all entitled to act accordingly.

Anyone know/have a template for a letter to my MP? Fibro fog is bad today and just cannot put together a letter properly

Thanks

But of course all the leave supporters should also write to their MP to ensure that 52/48 means what it means.
The 'remain' voters are ever so much 'holier than though' because the vote went against them - I am sure I could find 'remain' voters who voted that way because of European holidays, as respect for Jo Cox, because they did not understand the undemocratic nature of the EU, because so-and-so was voting 'remain', because of 'roaming charges', I could go on but it is so getting so boring now.
You do realise that markets and currency values fluctuate all the time, not that lonmg ago the Euro and Pound were at parity, the stocks and shares, currency fluctuations are at the behest of the market traders, hedge funds in the city. If you really cannot handle a little uncertainty you really need to take a deep breath and stop panicking.
And as for those who say they are 'ashamed of Britain' - perhaps you should leave if living in the country I happen to admire is so vexatious for you. Good luck in finding the grass is greener somewhere else

But it's almost impossible to fight this 'oh, it's all doom and gloom and exaggeration' attitude.

Actually, the ex governor of the bank of england, Mervyn King, does a pretty good job of fighting that attitude here

Sorry I should have said fighting YOUR attitude

Why would Mervyn King care - he got a £6.5 million when he left the bank of England and didn't pay a penny to it

Anyone know/have a template for a letter to my MP? Fibro fog is bad today and just cannot put together a letter properly

Template letters are a bad idea, some will just filter them out. I think the Write To Them website does that automatically. I think the best advice is to just write what you feel, although I appreciate that's not easy. Maybe google a bit and approximate some sentiments/arguments?

You do realise that markets and currency values fluctuate all the time

Yes, being an EU citizen and working, living and travelling abroad, I do realise this, thanks.

perhaps you should leave if living in the country I happen to admire is so vexatious for you

Precisely the plan. Unfortunately, the pound is so fucked at the moment, selling up is problematic.

I'm going to write to my MP. It's not about the result. If we have to leave on this basis we leave, I'm not going to jump up and down saying 'it's not fair'.
It's more that the process did not seem to be above board and democratic to me.
Serious questions like 'what's the plan?' were not answered, they were deflected by the all things to all people slogan 'take back control'. (oh the irony when we see the mess we're in today)
The leave campaign had racism at the bottom (3rd biggest donor - BNP member) and the top, (front man Boris dismisses input of President of US with racist put down). I fully accept that there are non racist votes in the middle, but those two elements make me concerned that underlying racist tendencies were knowingly harnessed and legitimised in order to win.
The 2 leave voters I've spoken to since the result are now stunned at the outcome, it turns out because they had no concept of the economic model of the country. they now regret their votes. (I'm not saying that they're stupid by the way. It's just that they'd never had any interest in economics, fair enough. But it begs the question, were we the electorate qualified to make this permanent binding decision).
Promises unravelled so quickly, and there is no organisation to hold to account. At least if you voted in a party and they broke promises you'd know not to vote for them again (a la lib dems). On this there is no next time, so no come back on broken promises.
Assuming that parliament accepts the results of the referendum my question to my MP will be how she can restore my faith in British democracy.