To urge you to write to your MP today if you wish to remain

[SybilEngineer]

The margin by which Leave won is too small to base such a huge decision on. This needs to be debated further especially now it's clear many people based their decision on misrepresentations made by Brexit campaigners on immigration and spending on NHS or made a protest vote.

Johnson is continuing with the myths claiming Britain will still be in Europe. Of course we will be geographically but that's all!

The referendum was advisory and not legally binding. If you want to stay in the EU please email your MP today.

political and economic disaster and the break-up of the UK were well known, well documented results of an out vote.

How are those "results" if they haven't happened? And how could they have possibly been "documented" before the vote has even taken place?

Have just written to my Tory remainer MP. The referendum was advisory. The MPS CAN block it. It's got to be worth a try.

How to stop Brexit: Get your MP to vote it down

Article 50 says: “Any member state may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements.” The UK’s most fundamental constitutional requirement is that there must first be the approval of its parliament.

A4 did you know there are people out there that analyse how economics, markets and political societies work? It is their job to anticipate what will happen to x if y happens

They are called experts. And the vast majority told us what the impact would be ....and documented it. Oh and 52% of the voters on that day put their fingers in their ears and ignored it instead listening to the outright lies of the Leave team. Take a look at the markets. Look around. Contracts are being suspended, projects are being halted. Money is flowing out of the UK right now, this minute. It is fact. It it was documented. And you didn't need a crystal ball

I won't even start to describe how our political system is also in freefall at the same time - look around

Shehas Brilliant article. I especially like this:

Our democracy does not allow, much less require, decision-making by referendum. That role belongs to the representatives of the people and not to the people themselves. Democracy has never meant the tyranny of the simple majority, much less the tyranny of the mob (otherwise, we might still have capital punishment). Democracy entails an elected government, subject to certain checks and balances such as the common law and the courts, and an executive ultimately responsible to parliament, whose members are entitled to vote according to conscience and common sense.

I can't stand all these but the world hasn't ended comments.

Is that all you can distinguish from news events: it's either 'continents destroyed by meteor, rise of the cyborgs, extinction of human race' or 'basically fine, mustn't grumble'? And if it's not the former, everyone shut up?

Yes, we're still here. 'Here' with:

• the pound at a thirty-year low against the dollar.
• the UK's credit rating cut from 'stable' to 'negative'.
• Scotland overwhelmingly likely to leave the UK.
• total, utter chaos in two major political parties, with leadership battles diverting all energy and attention. (And if you think this is great clean sweep and all then you're painfully mistaken. This is the kind of vicious disarray that allows the most ambitious, ruthless and opportunistic to grab power.)
• nobody managing or taking clear responsibility for Brexit negotiations.
• clear indications that EU side of Brexit negotiations intends to be fast-paced and hostile.
• realisation that Brexit campaign has no real plan for aftermath, and no accountability for delivering promises to cherry-pick best of EU benefits whilst divesting ourselves of responsibilities.
• if financial services' passporting rights cannot be retained (and even if they are), the strong likelihood that, over the next few years, many major City employers will wind down their London operations and relocate divisions or entire HQs to Frankfurt/Paris/Dublin. (Incidentally, if you thought Brexit was a vote 'against' the banks, then you're seriously mistaken: all it means is that they'll move and we'll lose the financial benefits of London being a centre for EU trading.)
• louder clamouring of far-right group for more division, nationalism and isolationism across Europe.
• new sense of legitimacy given to those who scapegoat and openly harass immigrants, because, hey, the people have spoken and they've said: go home.
• anxiety and confusion in impoverished areas previously dependent on EU subsidies and grants.
• a truly INSANE, uncomprehensible amount of work if Brexit goes ahead: unpicking ourselves from EU legislation; rearranging business operations; renegotiating all trade agreements; stablizing our own currency; negotiating and enacting new visa regulations for EU citizens currently in the UK; ditto for UK citizens resident in the EU; ditto for all future EU citizens who wish to work in the UK; replacing or dropping agricultural and industrial subsidies; completing or cancelling ongoing EU-funded projects in deprived areas; creating some new form of project-subsidy in same areas (or not); dealing with another Scottish ref and the fallout from that...

..and so many other things I can't even list, and ALL of them for such limited gains. I don't think many Brexiters will even be happy with the way things turn out, especially if we don't get the closed borders that so many openly support, and the recession forces us into further austerity.

I'm not 'embarrassed' to protest about this total clusterfuck. The idea that it's somehow embarrassing or uncouth to 'make a fuss' or not 'take it on the chin', etc etc, is an absolute cop-out and leaves the field wide open for the loudest, most determined extremists and opportunists to say and do whatever they want.

Arum great post.

Leave voters are not "the mob". They're ordinary people who believe this country's interests are best served if we form good working relationships and trade with other European countries, without the need for a political bloc which is far too interfering.

Democracy certainly doesn't include the tyranny of overriding what the population (demos i.e. "the people") wants.

Arum you can add this to the list - Barclays and RBS shares suspended from trading after tanking more than 8%

Fantastic post arum. Do you have any plans on running for government.

You should also have mentioned added impetus to calls for the reunification of Ireland and resurgence of Sein Fein.

A4 have you looked around yet? The argument has moved onto how the hell can we save our economy. I don't play semantics

Arum for PM. There's a vacancy.

Antique But it was on James O'Brien fri 24th I shall have a listen, thanks

ARum is quite right, there will have to be an almost complete overhaul of political and financial status.

But, given that the current PM called the referendum now, just before the summer break, it was also disappointing to hear the continued 'fear' rhetoric: apparently DC has threatened to set up a Brexit dept in the civil service to cope with it all

1. Why is that a threat?
2. Why is that a surprise?

Amongst all the doom and gloom there is a glimmer of hope: all parties (well, maybe not the LibDems) are imploding, resigning. We, Remain or Leave, get a chance to use (sometimes newly found) political nouse to vote for 'proper' politicians. Not the seemingly fair weather MPs, career politicans but avid, heartfelt, local MPs who will think and act more on the behalf of their electorate - assuming that their electorate takes the opportunity, of course.

I admire your optimism, OurBlanche

But do you remember the level of political discourse at the last election? (Or, well, ever.) Fucking Lynton Crosby and his dead cats.

AuntDotsie I could have written your post. And I agree with everything ARum has said. It's nice to see some sane arguments on the Remain side that haven't descended into lunacy. (That's not to say that all the PP have - just generally).

The majority of my constituency voted to Remain (but my local council area voted to Leave ). So I will write to my MP as I can see from his website that he is a Eurosceptic but felt strongly that Remain was better for the country. I don't want a second referendum (well I do really) but I will ask that his votes represents what his constituents wanted.

If anyone feels so inclined could they please PM (no pun!) me the wording they used. I won't copy it, just need to know where to start and get the tone right. Thanks.

The constitutional position of referendums in the UK
October 24, 2011 by Nosemonkey

Referenda have a decidedly unclear position within the UK constitution. The people are not and never have been sovereign in the UK – sovereignty rests with Parliament (technically the Crown in Parliament), and anything that threatens parliamentary sovereignty could easily be challenged as unconstitutional. Direct democracy bypasses Parliament, therefore it easily falls into this category.
It always surprises me that anti-EU types don’t realise this, considering one of their key arguments against the EU is that it is unconstitutional for anyone/anything to be able to overrule Parliament (usually they quote the 1689 Bill of Rights – this has little/no actual legal weight, but the theory is still there)

For those who shout "democracy" and then "don't dare challenging the results" and "mind your own business":

DEMOCRACY ENDS WHEN PEOPLE DON'T HAVE LEGITIMATE WAYS TO CHALLENGE DECISIONS, NOT WHEN PEOPLE WORK ON LEGAL WAYS TO CHANGE THEM.

Sorry for shouting, I'm getting so tired of double standards.
Everybody has the full right and even responsibility to inform MPs of their views. It might prevent unexpected disasters in the future.

This from the Guardian is interesting:

Much like its political leaders Boris Johnson and Michael Gove, the Vote Leave online campaign has gone rather quiet over the weekend. The Twitter and Facebook accounts have been silent since 23 June and the campaign website homepage has been wiped.

Although the campaign’s archive of pledges, briefings, speeches and op-eds written by senior campaign figures are still hosted on the site, they are no longer linked to from the homepage, making them much harder to find.

But anyone entering through the main www.voteleavetakecontrol.org link will see only a note thanking supporters and a photo of Johnson, Gove and Priti Patel campaigning in front of a battle bus emblazoned with a version of the controversial £350m claim, with no way to access any of the rest of the site.

[wonders how many will need to Google about dead cats]

She was it just an illusion? I guess they have nowt to say - or have been moving their assets to the Caymans to be too busy to update it?

Tho I would also say there are few Leavers on here either anymore - you would think they would be bursting with happiness now they have been proved right. Does that mean some maybe weren't real people?

I work on websites and after a winning campaign you'd think they'd be more visual, but feels like they're hiding all the "promises" they made.

Can someone genuinely explain to be why the Labour ministers are quitting - wouldn't it be better to stay and "fix" things? If you lose your position then doesn't it make it harder for you to initiate change within the Labour Party? 19 have resigned so far.

They're just 'quitting' to oust Corbyn, that's all. They're not going anywhere.

At least one of them this morning seemed to say that they are quitting because of their principles. That will be the principle that when your electorate disagree with you you just walk away!

I'd have much more respect for any of them, whatever party, if they said "I don't agree with the vote but, having been elected as an MP / called to shadow cabinet, I will do my utmost to make any and all changes necessary as painless as possible"