To urge you to write to your MP today if you wish to remain

[SybilEngineer]

The margin by which Leave won is too small to base such a huge decision on. This needs to be debated further especially now it's clear many people based their decision on misrepresentations made by Brexit campaigners on immigration and spending on NHS or made a protest vote.

Johnson is continuing with the myths claiming Britain will still be in Europe. Of course we will be geographically but that's all!

The referendum was advisory and not legally binding. If you want to stay in the EU please email your MP today.

rum try sticking to reality, it's a much more pleasant place to be, or maybe you just enjoy drama for the sake of it.
dotsie the £ is not 'fucked' this is very good news for exporters and tourism.

I have a lot of respect for Mervyn King, but he didn't see the last crisis coming either.

Here's my email if it's any help. Nobody need sneer at my lack of eloquence, I kept it to brief as I just wanted to get my point over. It was written on Sunday; if I was doing it now I would point out that the Leavers had no plan for exit during the campaign.

Dear Ms XX

My husband and I live in the village of xxx in your constituency. We voted to remain in the EU and now ask you, as our MP, to represent our interests in the Parliament. The margin by which the Leave campaign won is too narrow to base such a huge decision on

We are concerned that millions of people made their decision based on misrepresentations by those campaigning for Brexit on such matters as immigration and spending on the NHS

Surely Parliament cannot simply disregard the wishes of the 16 million people who wish to remain in the EU

We understand that the referendum was advisory and non-binding. We therefore ask you to work to ensure that we remain within the EU as leaving could be an economic and social disaster for (constituency) and the United Kingdom

Yours sincerely

Full name, postal address and telephone number

Typo! I didn't actually write 'in the Parliament'

dotsie the £ is not 'fucked' this is very good news for exporters and tourism.

Oh right, that 30-year low is all my head then! Fuck's sake.

the pound has risen as has the ftse - just saying for those who may be talking about yesterday
I do wish posters would not use the f word in an attempt to make their viewpoint more virulant - it really adds nothing and you can make your point without it.

I do wish posters would not use the f word in an attempt to make their viewpoint more virulant - it really adds nothing and you can make your point without it.

And sanctimony is better rhetoric, is it?

try sticking to reality, it's a much more pleasant place to be, or maybe you just enjoy drama for the sake of it.

Oh dear, TheOrchard. Another one in the 'Keep Calm and Brexit!' camp? Everyone's making such a fuss! I can't imagine why.

Mollie: dead cat bounce.

Also, you may well drag us from the European Union, but you'll never take the fucks from Mumsnet.

You may take our freedom of movement, but you'll never take our fucks!

Anyone would think the German referendum in 1933 was the only referendum ever to have happened, the way people are using it to justify never using referendums ever again

What about all the perfectly reasonable referendums which have ever occurred in this country and others? www.parliament.uk/get-involved/elections/referendums-held-in-the-uk/

And how about taking into account the various referendums where the democratic results were ignored by the EU?

Ok rum I have countered several of your points and all you have responded with is emotional rhetoric, not reasoned arguments. You probably do need to calm down and stop catastrophising.

dotsie The £ is fine, unless you are unhappy with the prospect of rebalancing the economy back to manufacturing, and continue to rely solely on financial services?

Ok rum I have countered several of your points and all you have responded with is emotional rhetoric, not reasoned arguments. You probably do need to calm down and stop catastrophising.

You haven't countered any points. All you've done is taken every negative from Brexit so far and attempted to portray it as a positive; dismissed all further negative projections; minimized Remainers as hysterical, dramatic, unrealistic, emotional.

On a purely academic level, it's just interesting to see how badly things can go before a dedicated Brexiter will admit there are serious flaws and fuckups in the Brexit non-plan. I'm going to assume pretty bad, going from the 'OMG guys, the world hasn't ended' rhetoric of some, and the 'no, these bad things are actually great' attitude of others; nothing short of the apocalypse is going to be acknowledged, is it?

Rum I have countered with facts, actual realities. You have done nothing to discredit my arguments because you cannot.
I would also like to know where exactly I dismissed all further negative projections? Please try and restrain your creative streak when it comes to quoting me, I can see you will find that difficult though.
I have discounted you as hysterical (every post you write further confirms this) not all remainers.
I wonder when you sacrificed your freedom and integrity to mammon, as that seems to be your overweening concern.

Yeah, Rum, calm down, dear! We'll just shift some goalposts and ignore the rest, it'll all be fine.

I can't be arsed rehashing this. I have just listened to a recording of a German woman, who had been married to a British GP, calling a radio station frightened for her life link.

If you can listen to that and still call this entire mess a success or grounds for optimism, then I have no words for you.

Perhaps those people who are saying "you can't ignore the result of the referendum" can tell us what they think the legal effect of the referendum is.
Because it has none. It is no more than a ponced-up opinion poll. In this country parliament is sovereign. The European communities act can only be repealed by parliament and by the time that body is faced with that question things may look very different.
I am happy to ignore the referendum vote. Our democracy is not based on the will of the brute majority. Parliament has been the guarantor of our rights and freedoms since 1689 and should remain so.

Ah so now you want to talk about something else, because you are unable to counter the arguments at hand. The people were asked, they made a choice and we must implement it and make the best of it. These deep divisions in society were there before brexit, and have been exacerbated by successive governments continual dismissal of those who have lost out the most from mass, unmanaged and unplanned immigration. Racism and xenophobia is to condemned, and so must the politicians who allowed things to get to this state in the first place. This is being played out across the whole of Europe. If the EU were such a Eutopia then that wouldn't be the case.

Legally youcould ignore the result of the referendum, but that would destroy the credibility of our government, harden opinion against the EU further and lead to civil unrest. Not the smartest choice.

Orchard

We have civil unrest now, and will have more, as economic hardship increases, and the inability of the pro-leave contingent (assuming they form the core of the next government, as seems likely) to deliver what they promised becomes clear.
Boris already had csitulated on free movement as the price of single market access. Which even he acknowledges we must have. So we will bear the burdens with no ability to influence the rules that we will have to accept, if we want to benefit from the single market.
We had a good deal. Single market access but none of the crazy bits. No Schengen, no Euro. Pissed up the wall. What a bunch of muppets.

In one country I used to live, I'd have been jailed for even approaching a government minister, especially if I attempted to speak to him.

I'd probably have been beaten soundly for my pains.

You know, I'm really quite happy with the democratic outcome of this vote.

If you're still fizzing with unresolved anger, may I respectfully suggest you channel it towards educating the concerning percentage of young people who chose not to vote but are instead cluttering up SM with half-baked cut and paste propaganda and not-very-amusing pious rants about the fascists who dare to have an alternative viewpoint.

You could explain that they could have voted and they might well have made a difference.

I'm not entirely sure I understand what the point of mooing cows post us. If the point is to suggest that the referendum makes the difference between being a country where people are beaten for speaking to government minsters and one when they are not, it has an even looser relationship with the truth than most things said by the pro-leave contingent.
But who knows what it means. Coherence appears to be one of many things the brave new Britain has no use for. Worrying.

Ah biscuits, a wonderful riposte well done dotsie
Do come back when you have some reasoned arguments.
mooing I absolutely agree with everything you said.
karlos lets see where we get to with negotiations.

Who knows what 'brute majority' means (sounds a bit snobby to me but there you go) .
Respect the will of the people, make the best of it, or leave Britain and go and live in the eu while you still can. It's wonderful I hear!

I have discounted you as hysterical (every post you write further confirms this) not all remainers.
I wonder when you sacrificed your freedom and integrity to mammon, as that seems to be your overweening concern.

Yes. I am dangerously hysterical and full of mad emotive rhetoric. Thank you for speaking so calmly and rationally. I will be sure to mention this next time I sacrifice a goat to Mammon.

In the meantime, though: one of the main negative future projections you've dismissed is the likelihood of Scotland leaving the UK. I think that it is likely, whether their path to EU membership is as you've suggested rough, or relatively smooth.

I think, if a second IndyRef is held, a lot of Scottish voters will struggle to justify a cautious, 'Better Together' vote again, when the EU Ref has both drawn such a visible divide between our countries AND deprived Scotland of the UK EU membership it clearly wishes to retain. I don't think anyone watching Alyn Smith and Nigel Farage speak in the European Parliament today could see anything but future rift between these two countries.

The Scottish IndyRef was nowhere near as close as the UK's EURef -- but the independence demographic was strongly skewed towards younger voters and passionate, committed campaigning, so the demand for independence isn't going to fade away. Many people who voted to uphold the union in the previous referendum did not do so because they didn't want independence, but because they didn't want it right now: no clear plan in place, Salmond wasn't credible, etc. Brexit has made a lot of these concerns irrelevant.

Plus, there's a strong emotive element, too. How many times, on this thread, have we heard that 'the people have spoken' and 'we must respect democracy', on the basis of a 52% majority? How would you feel if your country had voted 62% to take one course of action, but was obliged by its union with another nation to move in the opposite direction? Isn't the notion that this is unacceptable one of the strongest arguments used by Brexiters against the EU?

OK, the £ is not fine if you want to move abroad, it's fucked. That was the original context. How you got to manufacturing vs financial services from that, I haven't a clue.

I listened to that radio clip and cried. You crowed, said 'racism is to be condemned' and used it to try and win your little 'rational' debate. No words - biscuits all the way for you.