Only for the leave voters - please!!!

[time4chocolate]

I don't want another attack on me I already feel battered and bruised from people on here -I was watching Muse 'Uprising'' at Glastonbury, they were bloody fantastic and the lyrics jumped out at me (maybe I am going mad I don't know) but they summed up what I feel about the EU and why I voted how I did. Worth a listen if anyones has a spare five minutes.

queensansastark, I don't think he is and we can't bar him from political office because some people accuse him of it.

Lizzylou, I thouht they didn't do exit polls. There certainly wasn't an exit poll where I voted.

I wondered on another thread about the inability of the current generation to manage disappointment maturely and another poster thought that for many, this is the first time they haven't got what they wanted.

This extraordinary compulsion of many who don't like the outcome of democracy to react with uncontrolled invective, with racist, ageist, classist and bigoted outpourings sets a very poor example to the very young.

I'm thinking of the demands for safe space, no-platforming for those whose views you don't like and a genuine fury when demands aren't immediately met.

There's been a whole lot of sneering at British values recently but some phlegm, backbone, discretion and sleeve-rolling wouldn't go amiss.

That is a bloody brilliantly song, OP. Thanks so much for a positive, hopeful thread among so much determinedly negative hyperbole.

But I see the emboldening the racism as associated with Nigel's element of the Leave campaign.

What I don't understand is why Scotland would want to be independent from the UK but wants to be part of EU. Do they really think that the EU would be more in the interest of Scotland? And with oil price being what it is, it would make no sense? Or would that be another protest vote against Westminster? Does Scotland not know that oil rich countries are currently being crippled by the oil price?

'What I don't understand is why Scotland would want to be independent from the UK but wants to be part of EU. '

For the same reason the English Remain MPs want England, as part of the UK, to be a member of the EU. They all think that being in the EU gives the country economic and power bloc advantages and ensures workers' rights etc

You are most welcome Mooingcow. I am listening to it now and it's keeping me going.

What I don't understand about the uproar around the results is if Remainers were so sure we should remain in the EU forever, completely confident about its success, why didn't they protest and start a petition when DC first announced it? It seems everyone was happy for the referendum to go ahead, but assumed no one would vote to Exit which is daft. They clearly never entertained the idea they might lose.

I am worried that some Remainers are determined to sabotage the efforts of BREXIT just so they can say it's a failure. Unbelievably an Mner even said she and her dh are no longing buying coffee etc because they don't want to help the economy, I mean how daft can you get? This educated lot..really!

I didn't have an exit poll either, but then I never have!
I am not young, I didn't vote David Cameron in either, I didn't moan, what's done is done and I sucked it up.
This feels so, so different.
And Claig, I am not spewing bile at anyone who voted through issues of sovereignty, almost all of my family did! I get it, I don't agree, but I understand. Over a third of Brexit voters voted on the issue of immigration, racists incidents are rising and that is fact. Without that far right spin Brexit wouldn't have won. And to say they would is disingenuous at best.

Scotland cannot afford to be in the EU, it's not a free membership club, they have to pay to be in it, will have to pay to bail out Greece, and pay for the smooth transition of Turkey into the EU - it will bankrupt them. Nicola Sturgeon has been slapped down by the EU today and told no, mainly because the EU are running scared they, like the conservatives, had no plan B such was their smugness that the people would not revolt against them and partly because Scotland wont be bringing anything (mainly plenty of money) to the table so have been told to get to the back of the queue. Thank God we have a democracy in this country.

Lizzylou, this article was posted by another poster on a different thread earlier today. It is a really good piece and explains how the disenfranchised working classes have been on this path since the 70s, not just the last few weeks.

I've pasted it on a few threads today, it's worth a read.

http://www.perc.org.uk/project_posts/thoughts-on-the-sociology-of-brexit/

Here is the Muse song Uprising with the lyrics, because the lyrics are beautiful and powerful

I will have a read Mango, thankyou. And leave you leavers to your celebration

'the EU are running scared they, like the conservatives, had no plan B such was their smugness that the people would not revolt against them'

Very good point, time4chocolate, I forgot about that, it is not only our useless political class who had no plan B, it is the same with the EU bigwigs.

Here is the Muse song Uprising with the lyrics, because the lyrics are beautiful and powerful
hey, cometh the hour cometh the song :o

I can’t help feeling that every smug, liberal, snobbish barb that Ian Hislop threw his way on that increasingly hateful programme was ensuring that revenge would be all the greater, once it arrived

Mango that article is excellent. Thank you for sharing.

As a middle class, educated Labour supporter who voted Leave I feel like a complete pariah, and I am genuinely shocked at the vitriol I've read on Twitter by people I usually admire. It's distasteful to witness privileged, London hipsters dismissing the other half of the country as thick and racist - that's real divisiveness right there.

The media have already decided that this is a "disaster" and a "catastrophe" and no terms have even been decided yet! I do wish everyone would calm down a bit.

'You are in the great game now, and the great game is scary.'

It's not just a complex divorce, it's a complex game of chess. How do you plan for a game of chess apart from move by move and let's hope our politicians are the smarter ones with the better information.

it is not only our useless political class who had no plan B, it is the same with the EU bigwigs

or did they really have no plan B?

I wonder if not having a plan was part of the plan?

plan A=we vote to stay
if that fails plan B=rabbit in the headlights/headless chicken act to scare the people into thinking that the country is in free fall, chaos reigns and it's all gone to hell just like they said it would if we didnt vote stay with the EU

because, come on now it just doesnt wash does it

sure they may have predicted a remain vote was more likely but they knew it would be close and things could easily go the other way.

There were 2 options on the table, it's not as if the leave vote was some freak event from left field where the pearly king and queen staged a surprise coup now is it

had that been the case we'd expect them not to have a plan, but if you know that there are 2 possible outcomes you plan for both dont you...unless you're incompetent and cant organise a piss up in a brewery

conspiracy?
cockspiracy?

'if that fails plan B=rabbit in the headlights/headless chicken act to scare the people into thinking that the country is in free fall, chaos reigns and it's all gone to hell just like they said it would if we didnt vote stay with the EU'

It is possible they might try that, but I doubt it because the European people haave already seen how they toppled the Italian government and replaced them with technocrats, the pain they inflicted on the Greek people and if they tried to punish us, then the European people would get scared that they might be next and France and the Netherlands and the Swedes and Czechs etc would have parties stand up and say they want to leave. So the EU can't really take us on as doing so could end their entire game.

The Daily Mail's headline tomorrow is about a plot to stop Brexit, so they may get together and try and thwart the people's will. We will have to see what happens.

Maybe their plan B was to thwart the decision.

Glassgarden - that's definitely food for thought because yes, I do find it hard to believe that there was no 'plan b' given that there were only two possible outcomes to plan for, maybe this is the plan b ........ Interesting.

'How do you plan for a game of chess apart from move by move and let's hope our politicians are the smarter ones with the better information.'

That is a good point, it is suck it and see, you can't plan a 2 year divorce easily, you have to see how it goes.

Apparently there are calls within the EU for Juncker to step down, which would be the icing on the cake.

It would be interesting to see who is on the team assembled to negotiate with Brussels - there are some very experienced and wily senior Civil Servants who would be ideal (altough we may never know who they are).

There must surely be a raft of lawyers and negotiators that can be engaged (cost a load but could be worth every penny).

If a Politician is needed to front up the team I'd go for Gisela