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Brexit
Original poster

Only for the leave voters - please!!!

453 replies

time4chocolate · 26/06/2016 18:02

I don't want another attack on me I already feel battered and bruised from people on here -I was watching Muse 'Uprising'' at Glastonbury, they were bloody fantastic and the lyrics jumped out at me (maybe I am going mad I don't know) but they summed up what I feel about the EU and why I voted how I did. Worth a listen if anyones has a spare five minutes.

OP posts:
caitlinohara · 02/07/2016 11:54

Mango what I don't understand is why ordinary people who voted to Leave are now being asked incredibly detailed questions about trade agreements and international money markets and then when they can't provide comprehensive solutions are being told that if they don't understand that stuff they shouldn't have voted as they did. It's mad.

Asprilla11 · 02/07/2016 11:56

caitlinohara

Do you mean;

"WHAT IS THE PLAN???"

"YOU MUST HAVE A PLAN????"

"YOU MUST HAVE VOTED FOR SOME TYPE OF PLAN???"

Grin
GhostofFrankGrimes · 02/07/2016 12:02

Mango what I don't understand is why ordinary people who voted to Leave are now being asked incredibly detailed questions about trade agreements and international money markets and then when they can't provide comprehensive solutions are being told that if they don't understand that stuff they shouldn't have voted as they did. It's mad.

Its a reason the referendum should not have been called. If you don't understand what you are voting for - it is dangerous, given what is on the line.

Namehanger · 02/07/2016 12:02

Hi Caitlohara - no they shouldn't, but maybe the Brexit politicians should have had an expert team who had done some research. Which comes back to my earlier point the more you think about things the less clear they become.

I voted remain but I believe in equality, fairness and a more even distribution of the pie. It is tough, it requires moral and honest politicians and loads of hard work and an engaged electorate. Brexit is not the answer.

MangoMoon · 02/07/2016 12:08

Agree Caitlin!

YY Name, especially to hoping that this has driven people to engage in politics more.

I posted on a thread somewhere (might have been this one, I can't remember), about having a long convo with one of my very best friends after the result.

We both wanted exactly the same outcomes as each other but she believed the best route was to stay within the EU, I believed we were better served being out.

People generally want the same things, but don't always align with how best to get there.

Me and my friend are still as close as ever, and both got a good (reasonable!) understanding of each other's views.
Thankfully!

caitlinohara · 02/07/2016 12:13

Yes Asprilla, exactly that!

What I HAVEN'T seen, which would be quite interesting, is how many of the the people who voted in the 1975 referendum to join the single market now voted to Leave. This was a big factor in my FIL's decision: the notion that he had been misled, and that he hadn't been asked about joining a political union. It's perhaps something that younger Remainers have not considered, and not addressed.

caitlinohara · 02/07/2016 14:09

GhostofFrankGrimes I sincerely doubt that the people currently painting their faces with the EU flag have much idea what they were voting for. The notion that you can love Europe but hate the EU seems to have completely escaped them.

MangoMoon · 02/07/2016 23:30

Quite a measured article from Vince Cable:

www.independent.co.uk/voices/post-brexit-britain-this-is-how-you-can-hold-the-conservatives-to-account-a7111321.html

Don't know if the Lib Dems as a party are still floating the idea of standing on a 'reverse the referendum decision' manifesto, but if not then Vince certainly seems to have the measure of what is going on in the country.

caitlinohara · 03/07/2016 09:15

Thing is, it's the LibDems, and they will jump on any bandwagon going. It seems a bit woolly, and I don't like the name 48 movement, it reinforces that divide as though Brexiters are not welcome.

Sorry, feeling negative this morning having seen a perfectly diplomatic, supportive thread descend into point scoring again. Sad

Margrethe · 03/07/2016 10:32

Thanks for the link Shining, off to listen. Love Krugman.

Shiningexample · 03/07/2016 10:35

Welcome Margrethe😊

revealall · 03/07/2016 11:16

I am really puzzled that everyone on the remain side is hysterical about " The Plan". Half the point of leaving was that people were fed up of being drip fed an " EU plan "over which they had no say. Who actually knew what bit of legislation was coming next year for example?

With regards to the UK I think the plan is obvious. We want the good bits - free trade, British passports giving us easy access to Europe etc and not the bad bits like paying £350 million pounds a week.

Immigration is a non issue in my book. China, Pakistan, Philippines aren't in the EU and in my small town they are the predominate immigrants and run popular well supported businesses. Can't see that it makes anyone racist to say that you need a visa to work if you come from France or Poland.

LittlePickleHead · 03/07/2016 11:29

Revealall I like the idea of your plan, but don't think it's likely.

Is anyone concerned that all the political parties seem to be using the 'this was a vote against immigration' line? Unfortunately as the vote was a non specific 'leave' there is no way for voters to ensure that the end result tallies with what their hopes for leaving are

Do we think there should be a general election or secondary referendum about what primary concerns for a relationship with the eu are?

I'm fairly certain immigration wouldn't be the winning factor

Shiningexample · 03/07/2016 12:29

My concern would be that an election or referendum would prolong the unsettlement
I thing we need the dust to settle

Louw1988 · 03/07/2016 12:40

I hope there's not a general election yet. The conservatives always get the brunt of the shit when they get in and try and sort the mess out. I want them to see us through the next few years so everyone can see they are the best and actually making a better change.
I'm hoping labour will fizzle away now!

Shiningexample · 03/07/2016 12:47

Right now everything is up in the air, we need some resolution, something solid

LittlePickleHead · 03/07/2016 12:49

So are the majority happy with immigration as the main focus, even at the sacrifice of the single market? A lot of moderate leavers would be pretty unhappy with this.

I'm worried this is the way things are headed though

Shiningexample · 03/07/2016 13:03

I feel some kind of Australian style points system for immigration would be popular, although I am well aware of the criticisms of Australia on this issue

I think immigration does need to be carefully controlled, too much has a destabilizing effect on communities, especially where people with different cultural and religious backgrounds which don't mesh easily are concerned.

Yes ideally we should all get along, but in actuality that doesn't always happen.

The impulse to form in groups and out groups is deeply rooted, its an often destructive knee jerk reaction which we need to acknowledge and then guard against/mitigate

LittlePickleHead · 03/07/2016 13:24

It's looking very likely that the type of Brexit we end up with will be determined not by the 17m that voted, but by 150,000 conservative members. So really want anyone wants is a moot point.

Was reading an interesting article saying that currently the markets are rallying pending a decision on who is taking us forward. After a Leadsom win I would expect a pretty dramatic reaction as it will almost certainly mean the uprooting of the financial industry out of the U.K.

revealall · 03/07/2016 21:11

But what's wrong with the same visa we let everyone else in with? The change would be that EU citizens don't get priority over the rest of the world. Hardly controversial is it.

I also adon't get the panic over free trade since Canda managed to get almost zero tariff free trade and we import much more than we export. It works in their favour surely!

Margrethe · 03/07/2016 22:07

Why would Leadsom mean the end of the financial industry? I thought she was a strong of the city.

LittlePickleHead · 03/07/2016 22:25

Margrethe - she's backed by the far right and hardline leavers. There will be no 'leave light'

This means leaving the single market. And she wants to do the whole process in around 6 months Shock

Bonkers - we have no capability for us to negotiate from scratch in that amount only time (not to mention no where near enough negotiators). 2 years would be a stretch - it's taken other countries years and years

So yes, if that was the approach that was adopted it would mean a huge amount of uncertainty, loss of passporting and a big financial loss

Shiningexample · 03/07/2016 23:01

Mark Blyth on the Brexit vote

DoctorTwo · 04/07/2016 04:10

The banks won't leave London without laws being passed to curb their criminal activities. I mean, why do so many American banks have their HQs in London?