Why is Scotland so different?

[Indiestarr]

Does anyone have any insight? Presumably Scotland has the same post-industrial decline and deprivation issues as the north east of England and Wales, and yet their vote was pretty much the complete opposite of these areas. How is it they are almost uniformly progressive when the rest of the UK (NI aside) is anything but?

They haven't given up, they havent gone away. They are using their media now non-stop to try and divide us, to give publicity to people shouting "scumbag" at Boris, to divide the old and young, to talk about London leaving, to talk about people over 60 maybe not being allowed to vote in future.

They are desperate, all their spinners and servants are on TV non-stop saying that Article 50 should not be invoked so that we the people can realise what a terrible mistake we made. They want their puppets to come out and support the young over the old, to invalidate our democratic vote.

We beat them and they don't like it.

'but you haven't actually voted for anything.'

We won our freedom, our independence, the right to make our own laws and sack our own stooges.

I don't think Scotland is different.

The 25% Conservative vote went for Remain following all the politician's guidance that it would avoid Indyref 2. They would likely vote Brexit now to stay in the UK.

38% of the population look to be Nationalists who want Independence and Brexit - this in the face of the fact that Scotland has a stable / falling aging population and there is less income disparity and better more equitable levels of public spending.

A decent result for Remain given the dynamics of Indyref2 and the lack of a Brexit campaign would have been 80% remain, not 62%.

My evidence is from living here. There is some immigration - but mostly in urban areas. In Highland, Argyll, the Islands, Shetland, Orkney, Perthshire, Angus it very much is not the norm. Compare Glasgow with London, or even Manchester or Birmingham, and it remains far whiter and more "Brit / Scot"

My school has only twice in 25 years had non-White pupils, both siblings (Asian Mum, British Dad) and we have 2 pupils from Europe who arrived in the last year. That's it! Exotic means born in Wales, or England.

Manchester is 66% white, Glasgow 88%. From 2 different websites but roughly correct. Dundee is 6%.

Rural areas close to 0%.

I just don't see the immigration debate being had here - not because we are less racist, but because we haven't encountered it on the scale there is in parts of England.

But, the main reason is we have always blamed Westminster, not Brussels.

" I was objecting to the generalisation more than anything"

Yeah, I don't think there's an inherent difference between people...

Though thinking about when arrogance was mentioned up there somewhere.

I can't help thinking there must be a fair amount of that, England knew Scotland wanted to be in the EU, it was such a big issue in the independence referendum, they knew they would be completely stuffing Gibraltar up, they knew it was going to be hugely problematic for Northern Ireland and that it could end up restarting everything there...

As a PP said, I think the indyref probably helped - it got people hugely engaged in politics, people who hadn't been before, and that has never really gone away. I also get the impression that a lot of Scots weren't really that engaged with the EU ref - exactly the same lies arguments as in the indyref so we'd seen it all before.

It is also worth noting that in the I sure EU membership was a key plank in the Better Together campaign - people were told that Scottish I Independence meant leaving the EU, and that a vote to stay would keep us in the EU. Sadly some people believed this, and scoffed at the thought that the UK would leave the EU - now it is coming true a lot of people are feeling pretty pissed off and betrayed.

Ffs claig, the world is laughing, we've won nothing.
"Turkeys voting for christmas" is most other nations opinion.

"Stunned" is not a positive emotion.

Also JC is being criticised for only returning a similar result among English Labour voters. Perhaps rank and file Labour in England is in fact very similar to rank and file SNP/Labour in Scotland? In fact given the Conservative Remain effect in Scotland I would argue that the Scottish Left is more Brexit than the English Left.

(Something for the London centric Blairites to ponder).

62% voted remain claig not 60% and there was not a single region that had a majority leave they were all a much bigger majority remain than what leave actually won by.

As an outsider (not British) who has lived in Scotland (2 different cities) and south of England I would say Scottish people are quite different, much friendlier more inclusive, less class divide. More outward facing. There is a minority but very vocal minority of English people who really overestimate their importance in the world and life in general and I think they made their voices heard here!

I think the independence referendum forced a lot of Scottish people to become more politically intelligent. I do find them much less xenophobic, racist, sexist, and homophobic but in a very quiet way, as someone else said they just don't care! I don't know why that is?

Claig almost all European countries have a healthcare system free at the point of access. I don't think you understand what that statement means

'As a PP said, I think the indyref probably helped - it got people hugely engaged in politics, people who hadn't been before, and that has never really gone away. '

And yet the turnout was lower in Scotland than it was in England.

Roseformeplease where the hell in Scotland do you live???

We have MORE cancer drugs available than the NHS in England!! ( I work in this area). The Scottish new medicines consortium us meant that most scots have much better access to new drugs than the rest of the U.K.

I'm a white European living in Scotland and about a third of my NHS colleagues are also white Europeans!

I vote SNP because of their policies not out of protest!

" In Highland, Argyll, the Islands, Shetland, Orkney, Perthshire, Angus it very much is not the norm."

Not my experience of Argyll at all.

But as you've no evidence I'll believe what I see and that it's that while it is not at all comparable with some parts of England Scotland is not in anyway untouched by immigration. It isn't the same issue not because it isn't happening but because we're not overcrowded.

'Ffs claig, the world is laughing, we've won nothing.
"Turkeys voting for christmas" is most other nations opinion.'

It' not, that is what the media is saying, but like so much else during the campiagn, it is just another Establishment lie.

Trump said "the British took their country back" and this is what Soros said

"Brexit wound: UK vote makes EU decline 'practically irreversible', Soros says"

The powerful, the Financial Times, the Economist, the IMF etc are not laughing, they are weeping because it is the end of the EU, the end of globalism, the end of the game.

Does anyone think that devolution is fundamental too. Power has been devolved to: London, NI, Wales and Scotland.

Life in England seems governed almost entirely by the decisions made at Westminster that,Mao many, favour London and the SE. This had led to the creation of all cross party groups such as Yorkshire First - yet to make much headway against the establishment.

"Trump said "the British took their country"

He also managed to be in Scotland and somehow thought they were celebrating the leave win that they voted against, or of course made stuff up to suit his own campaign.

Deluded or a liar, which is better?

'Deluded or a liar, which is better?'

He is not a liar but is sometimes not too well informed as he concentrates his mind on what Hillary Clinton has been up to, and that is enough to keep Einstein busy.

I will look next time I am in Oban, but rural areas are very much untouched by immigration. And Scotland is predominantly rural.

"sometimes not too well informed"

He didn't need to be informed, he was here, in Scotland, either imagining a different situation from the one he saw or lieing about what was happening to further his campaign.

Claig "We are freedom loving, we rebelled against the King with the Magna Carta"

Is everyone descended from a rebellious Norman baron then. It was not issued for the protection of rights of the ordinary people. It was even reissued in Norman French by Edward 1.

Maybe what you mean is the Norman barons were freedom loving for themselves and rebelled against the Angevin king who was a descendent of the Normans too.

Weirdly Rose, it was in fact Oban I was thinking of, it's where I grew up and I still have friends and close family there...it's definitely not untouched by immigration, in fact it's even laughable that someone could think that if they spend any time there.

'Is everyone descended from a rebellious Norman baron then'

No, but that event influenced our history, our culture and our law and its effect is still felt today by generations that had nothing to do with it.

'Maybe what you mean is the Norman barons were freedom loving for themselves and rebelled against the Angevin king who was a descendent of the Normans too.'

Yup, just like the people rebelled against Cameron and the Etonian Lords.

There's a reason the Scottish threw golfballs with swastikas on them at Trump.

And it wasn't because they see him as "a man of the people"