Why is Scotland so different?

[Indiestarr]

Does anyone have any insight? Presumably Scotland has the same post-industrial decline and deprivation issues as the north east of England and Wales, and yet their vote was pretty much the complete opposite of these areas. How is it they are almost uniformly progressive when the rest of the UK (NI aside) is anything but?

Reported Claig for general goady fuckerness.

'He didn't need to be informed, he was here, in Scotland'

OK, he did think he was in Florida at one point during his speech, but that was because it was such a glorious sunny Independence Day.

My American friends and colleagues think that Britain has gone completely mad

claig have we been enjoying the aqua vitae? I will admit to being a tad pissed off with Sturgeon's point about challenging the result, but you have to admit, a clever wee minx. I completely support her stance that the 'question' of Scotland and EU membership "needs to be on the table" - it really does, because the Scottish people have spoken too, about what they think is right for them. A message from SW England.

To add to my original post answering OP's question, having given it more thought, I think Scotland produces high calibre politicians through a combination of both nature and nurture.

I found the most surprising thing about Trump and Turnberry was that it was so sunny and they were all in T-shirts - on the East Coast too!

It was a bit more windy and rainy down here.

'I will admit to being a tad pissed off with Sturgeon's point about challenging the result, but you have to admit, a clever wee minx.'

I don't think so, I think she has made a strategic mistake. I don't think the EU will giver her what she hopes for and she will end up with egg on her face which will damage her politically. She probably won't be able to use the pound if she tries to go independent and jjoin the EU, and anyway the EU will now begin its collapse so she is now on the wrong side of history.

Labour in Scotland are useless, just as they are here in England, and the Tories aren't much use either. Maybe Scotland will get a new politics out of this, just as England is likely to do. Our whole national politics has been upended, the stooges have been defeated by the people.

I heard that Scotland does 63% of its trade with the United Kingdom. Does anyone have the figures for the percenatge of Scotland's trade with the EU and the rest of the world?

Sorry, trade with England, rather than the UK

Not all votes for the SNP are protest votes. I have to reluctantly admit they make a not bad governmemt and poltically at the top they are both erudite and machiavellian in a way that is largelt unmatched at WM. You underestimate them at your peril.

Also because of the SP, we have to an extent been protected from austerity as Scotland prioritises public services. (Although the CT freeze fucks this up a bit and I wish they'd get rid of it).

So people here are less aggrieved.
Things are inevitably a bit shit under a tory gvmt but it could be worse.

Immigration round these parts means moved from England. Oban has a fraction of the immigration of, say, Eastbourne or equivalent English seaside towns.

She probably won't be able to use the pound if she tries to go independent and jjoin the EU
I cant imagine Scotland will be too happy about joining the euro!

as for reporting Claig for 'goading', I think that is unjustified
he may be controversial to some but his posts are very polite when compared to much of the discourse on here

The north east barely has any EU migrants but they still voted overwhelmingly to leave. My DPs grandad lives in the north east and he said that we can't have immigrants taking English jobs and I asked him how many migrants they had in his town and he said ummm the Indian man who runs the newspaper shop.

Makes no sense.

Thanks, glassgarden, I am giving a different perspective. I thinkit is all about freedom, which is why the English voted against the EU. Also, I'm not a he.

http://www.hie.co.uk/common/handlers/download-document.ashx?id=10d4d5ca-32e7-48ed-80db-2c5aa3246a91]

The above suggests that most migration is seasonal and therefore has a limited effect on schools and housing.

http://www.hie.co.uk/common/handlers/download-document.ashx?id=10d4d5ca-32e7-48ed-80db-2c5aa3246a91]

The above suggests that most migration is seasonal and therefore has a limited effect on schools and housing.

And the double post suggests my general incompetence with posting.

'Makes no sense.'

Because while immigration is an issue, I think it is really just symptomatic of the loss of control (of borders, of economy, of trade deals, of vacuum cleaber regulations etc) that our government has accepted, and people want control back, they want a government that they control and which is capable of controlling our country and making all our own laws.

The Leavers are saying that immigration will probably still be high if we leave, but the difference is that we will be able to control who comes in via a points based system. So it is more about control than numbers in the end.

Also, I'm not a he
sorry Claig, my mistake

"The above suggests that most migration is seasonal and therefore has a limited effect on schools and housing."

I don't know what you were trying to link to, but it goes to the mumsnet referendum board.

How would the polish grocery shop in Oban survive if it was only seasonal migration? What about the children in schools, are they seasonal too?

I don't think so, I think she has made a strategic mistake. I don't think the EU will giver her what she hopes for and she will end up with egg on her face which will damage her politically

Oh I do hope that is true.

On immigration I really don't think Scotland can climb on its moral high horse. We have very little of it and the majority is seasonal agricultural workers and the ever popular Polish builders. Yet Scotland still managed to elect a UKIP Mep.

As for being different I prefer to think I have much in common with the Remain voters in London,Cardiff, Belfast, Oxford, Cambridge, Exeter, Bath,Bristol, Winchester,Liverpool, Newcastle, Manchester,Norwich, York and Leeds where remain was the majority. And places like Sheffield, Canterbury, Birmingham and Nottingham where there was 1% or less in it.

I can't be doing with this "fa's like us? dammed few" attitude.

Claig, we have a points based system for non EU migrants which brings in higher levels.

'we have a points based system for non EU migrants which brings in higher levels.'

Yes, but a points based system is a control. For EU citizens, we have no control, it is potentially unlimited and Corbyn says "there is no upper limit".

What this Referendum was really all about was control of our country which means freedom from control by others. It was a revolt of the people against the elites because the elites have handed over control of our country to Brussels and our elite are themselves controlled such as probably Blair over Iraq and much else.

The people want control back and control over their political class so that the people can be sovereign, determine their own laws and be free of control.

That is why PR voting is likely to be the next shoe to fall in the people's revolution over our useless Oxbridge elites.

"There is a way Brexiters could really hand back control to voters

Caroline Lucas

I’m devastated by the EU referendum result, but it did show how angry people are with the establishment, and that proportional voting could help to give them a voice"

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/24/brexiters-voters-eu-referendum-result-proportional-voting

The elite are trying to stop us, they are using their media to divide us among old and young, London and the regions, Scotland and England etc. As Peter Hitchens says, our peple's revolution is only half done, we beat them in this Referendum, now we must reform our political system so that we can't be fooled by them again.

"On immigration I really don't think Scotland can climb on its moral high horse."

It's not morals, it's just a different situation entirely.

Scotland doesn't have the same concentration of immigrants, there are fairly significant numbers, but no, not the same as in some (not all) places in England.

We don't have the same sort of housing crisis as say the south east.

The school admissions process being so different means there are few places where there is that scrambling for school places and on top of that, new housing isn't built without school provision being taken into account (not always quite well enough, but it's not ignored) it's fairly common that large developments have to include a school.

So firstly it's just a different situation.

But also, I think we're actually a bit better about holding politicians responsible for stuff, so when they go, oh immigration is causing X y or z, more people are going, eh? No...your cuts are.

I teach, in Scotland. Not far from Oban (within 100 miles, rural) and there are very few immigrants. As I said un thread. We currently have 2. (Approx 1.5%). There are seasonal workers, but not many and no one who is not white, currently.

Honestly, I campaigned quite hard for my area to take Syrian refuges but Highland is taking 5 families and they are all going to Inverness.

Cousins in the south of England have a very, very different experience of immigration. Which is why, I think, they voted differently.

There are dozens of other reasons. The statistic I tried to like to was on the hie website.