Why is Scotland so different?

[Indiestarr]

Does anyone have any insight? Presumably Scotland has the same post-industrial decline and deprivation issues as the north east of England and Wales, and yet their vote was pretty much the complete opposite of these areas. How is it they are almost uniformly progressive when the rest of the UK (NI aside) is anything but?

Scotland has a much better calibre of politician - I'm not sure if it's nature or nurture. They are brilliant at oration, driving their points home and do a lot of research, hence they know what they are talking about and do so with confidence. Given the size of their population compared to England, for many years Scots have have been far more successful as politicians at Westminster, including those representing English constituencies. I say this from SW England, voted Leave with no regrets, (well - only that we don't have more English politicians that are as good as the Scottish ones).

I think many of the "problems" that led people to vote out are just not issues here. Easy to be pro-immigration when you live, as I do, amongst nearly 100% native white British and only very few white European migrants. Now, I would welcome refugees - our schools are losing staff because of falling rolls. But, no need to fight against the mythical immigrants if they are all on the telly. Even big cities have been much less affected.

Also, while the UK is a net contributor, Scotland has benefitted enormously from the EU.

I voted IN and NO in the independence ref. Scotland is bitterly divided and bloody awful. But, the issues are different. Also, Scotland has for too long been able to blame Westminster, so hasn't needed to blame Brussels. The votes for the SNP are essentially a protest vote, just as the Euro ref out vote is a protest.

Education here is shit. Pupils miss school and no one cares. Teachers are working to rule. Many cancer drugs are not available on the NHS and the "free" uni places are restricted in number and the best students can miss out.

'I believe in the welfare state and helping those worse off.'

justbogoff, we have got a National Health Service free at the point of demand an no other European country has that. We have got higher and more generous benefits than most European countries.

They do not have better systems than us in general.

We are also now free to make our own laws, our own choices, deselect our own stooges and elect our own representative politicians who can really represent us.

"Easy to be pro-immigration when you live, as I do, amongst nearly 100% native white British and only very few white European migrants"

That's absolutely not the case for everywhere in Scotland.

The Remain campaign had one major argument - the economy, and they got all their international mates like the IMF to help them frighten the people. They used the same argument of the economy in the Scottish Indyref.

It didn't work in the EU Referendum, because Cameron and the team of spinners were staggered to find that the English valued freedom and independence more than economics, plus they weren't stupid enough to believe the bullying lies over the economy anyway. They hoped that COrbyn would be able to get the Norther Labour vote out, but they didnt realise that the working class is not the property of metropolitan Labour or anyone else, they made their own minds up and voted for independence and freedom because they had had enough of being pushed around.

Scotland overall has a falling population, and needs to encourage inward migration to continue to thrive

Scotland has decided to spend tax money on costs that are passed to tax payers in Engkand, such as university tuition fees and prescriptions

Scotland has never thought of itself as the centre of the world

FFS Claig, I was referring to your point about America.

You really can't argue with stupid.......

America is not really "like England" at all...

'FFS Claig, I was referring to your point about America.
'
Yes, you were saying you are well off and could do well in America, but you supported a welfare state. It was the working class that won this Referendum for us, the poor in the North that didn't turn out for Reamin and the Labour spinners. They are not as well off as you and they chose to leave the EU, partly because they wanted their own taxes spent on their own country and services rather than supporting poorer EU countries.

"In this Brexit vote, the poor turned on an elite who ignored them"

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/25/brexit-vote-poor-elite

I am saying that our welfare state and our NHS is superior to that of most of Europe and now that we are independent, we will be able to spend more money on it instead of spending it on the Common Agricultural Policy.

as its been said, we are tolerant, decent and respectful to others up here

I'm sorry but you wouldn't say that if you'd been a shy English kid growing up in a Scottish secondary school.

'America is not really "like England" at all...'

In the sense of freedom and liberty it is. It was founded by people escaping Britain to gain more freedom. Our elites restrained our freedom and independence then, which is why people went to America, and our elites handed over our independence to unelected bureaucrats in Brussels now.

Now we have got our freedom back, Jun 23 was our Independence Day.

This is what the greatest American of our age said about Brexit

"Britons 'took their country back' in Brexit vote: Trump"

www.cnbc.com/2016/06/24/britons-have-taken-back-control-of-their-country-trump.html

Blair didn't like it, Brussels didn't like it, but then we showed that we weren't too keen on them.

SSD - I agree that they are all good at their jobs but my point was around the diversity vs the Etonian mess down below.

Hahahahahahaha claig no I know you're a troll. Hahahahahhahahahaahhahaha

"I'm sorry but you wouldn't say that if you'd been a shy English kid growing up in a Scottish secondary school."

I was and I think Scotland is mostly decent, tolerant and respectful...but I don't think it's unique to Scotland, most of England is as well.

gunting

I'm sorry, but I do love Trump and the wise words he comes out with

Arf at Trump being the "greatest American"! If that were the case, we would all be completely fucked

Not the case for everywhere but, outside Glasgow and one or two other pockets, it very much is the case. Immigration (or more) would be good for Scotland - most people agree. But it is easy to agree with something that has yet to affect you.

You make me very sad claig.

"Not the case for everywhere but, outside Glasgow and one or two other pockets, it very much is the case"

Do you have any evidence for that? because I'm finding it a bit hard to believe that where I live, the various places in Scotland that my friends and family live and everywhere I've been in Scotland in the last few years happen to coincidentally uncharacteristic pockets of immigration.

I would be careful about seeing a Scottish in vote in the same light as an English in vote. A lot of Scottish voters were voting in because the SNP told them to as it was seen as the best way of getting a second referendum.

Scottish people are not that different from the English.

'You make me very sad claig'

What is there to be sad about of the greatest people's revolution this century. We the people took them all on - Cameron and the Etonian And Oxbridge teams, the Bank of England, the IMF, the World Economic Forum, Davos, the Financial Times, the Economist, the Labour Party, the Greens, the SNP, Obama - and we won. We the people won. We stunned the world and started a global revolution of the people.

'British stun the world': how the world's media reacted to Brexit
...
The New York Times led with 'British Stun World', over other domestic American stories. The decision to leave, the paper noted, was "a historic decision sure to reshape the nation’s place in the world, rattle the Continent and rock political establishments throughout the West".

www.thedrum.com/news/2016/06/24/british-stun-world-how-worlds-media-reacted-brexit

We done it, the working class and Middle England combined done it, we beat Blair and all the rest of the servants. We made history.

I was and I think Scotland is mostly decent, tolerant and respectful...but I don't think it's unique to Scotland, most of England is as well.
Mostly, perhaps. I was objecting to the generalisation more than anything. There was a lot of casual anti-English feeling at my school and it still see it sometimes eg in the 'Anyone but England' sentiment you often see at sporting fixtures.

"We the people won."

You haven't won anything, you've rejected the EU, but you haven't actually voted for anything.

Neither Trump nor Boris nor Farage can be seen to be "men of the people" in any real sense