Why is Scotland so different?

[Indiestarr]

Does anyone have any insight? Presumably Scotland has the same post-industrial decline and deprivation issues as the north east of England and Wales, and yet their vote was pretty much the complete opposite of these areas. How is it they are almost uniformly progressive when the rest of the UK (NI aside) is anything but?

Basically, the Scots are just a little bit better than the English, claig.

Scotland doesn't seem to have the arrogance of England, which claig is trying to rename as freedom loving rebellion....

Try watching the euro's, the Irish teams and the Welsh were mingling among other fans and generally seemed to be having a great time, the English were all over the news for their fighting and drunken behavior, certainly in a minority of fans but there nonetheless

Scotland is a very tolerant, friendly and welcoming country, maybe because we have felt like the under dogs for years, having to live with successive governments we didn't vote for and watching news that seems to stop somewhere around the M25 for years too

I think also that Scottish people feel much more connected to their country than the English do. In Scotland people think about themselves, but also what they think would be good for the wider country as a whole because there is a deep rooted embedded national pride. I think this is less prevailent in some parts of England.

I'm fairly ashamed to be English in these times. I have been considering a move further north this weekend

'Scotland doesn't seem to have the arrogance of England'

There is no arrogance among the English. We took the arrogant Establishment on, we laughed at Balir and the gang, we stuck two fingers up to the entire elite and Establishment, we rocked the world and started a revolution. We brought the arrogant low, we made them reap what they had sowed. It wasn't arrogance, it was defiance for liberty.

"In this Brexit vote, the poor turned on an elite who ignored them"

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/25/brexit-vote-poor-elite

See them panic, see them try to divide us old and young, English adand Scottish, Welsh and Norther Irish, educated and uneducated, they won't stop till they think their work is done, but the truth is we the people have got them on the run.

They are falling like skittles, resignations left and right, tears in Number 10, plots in Labour ranks, SNP blustering, EU disintegrating, we the people have put an end to the crap, we have escaped from their EU trap.

I should add that we are used to being fed half truths and empty promises by UK politicians (the inde ref was also good dry run for Brexit for us) so are less likely to be swayed by political rhetoric from 'doon sooth' and more likely to make up our own minds!

claig, you talk some amount of shit

We have three women leading the main parties too.

And what everyone else said.

ssd , we the people have torn up their playbook, we have made them rewrite the rules, everything is now changing, the Prime Minister has resigned, there is a coup against Corbyn, talk of a new election. In one stroke, we ended the game, we forced them to change, we made them listen to the people for a change.

"We have three women leading the main parties too. "

yes, and 2 of them are gay and no one cares, they are all good at their jobs and much respected here

as its been said, we are tolerant, decent and respectful to others up here and looking at a lot of the news on tv this weekend, England is looking the exact opposite

claig, you have done no such thing, you have played right into their hands and the new rulebook will now be written by the most right wing Conservatives there are

god help you all when we get independance

'we are tolerant, decent and respectful to others up here and looking at a lot of the news on tv this weekend, England is looking the exact opposite'

Are you referring to the left wing protestors booing Boris and calling him a "scumbag" because they didn't get their way in a democratic vote?

It is the media who are giving them publicity deliberately to try and force the majority to give up and give in to the Establishment which failed in the Project Fear they successfully used against Scotland in the Indyref, but didn't pull off in the EUref.

The leave campaign WAS the equivalent of project fear.

I'm not arguing with you anymore claig, as we say up here if you had a brain you'd be dangerous.

I've lived half my life in Scotland, half in England.

I don't think the differences are that big. I think it's mostly that the disenfranchised of Scotland have had the SNP to vent their feelings through. England didn't. The SNP have seemed to listen more, have made people feel more engaged. No one did that in England except UKIP. Plus the Scots had the English to blame. The English chose Europe instead.

People are mostly alike all over.

Thanks for all the informative replies, very interesting.

claig this we and us you keep talking about, please don't use it to refer to English people as a whole. A solid 48% don't share your views, so please tone it down. You don't speak for everyone who is English by a long shot.

"We have three women leading the main parties too. "

yes, and 2 of them are gay and no one cares, they are all good at their jobs and much respected here"

I think we have better politics in general up here, partly I suspect because it's seen in some circles as second tier and second rate so it attracts less of the politicians who would put their career before actually doing their job and it means more diversity among politicians.

Also the system is set up so that parties have to work together more rather than the adversarial grandstanding that goes on at Westminster.

I think all that combines to create better politicians.

And you aren't reflecting all of the Scottish people. 60% voted for staying in the EU and 40% voted against, like the majority of the English.

Although Claig is making me wonder if the old stereotype of the canny Scot isn't one I should embrace. I've never heard so much brain dead nonsense from the worst cybernat.

In Scotland people think about themselves, but also what they think would be good for the wider country as a whole because there is a deep rooted embedded national pride.

I'm American so a bit hesitant to wade in here but I went to university in Scotland and follow Scottish and UK politics (often with the help of MN) so I am going to say that I think there is a lot of truth in the quoted statement. I think there is a stronger sense of the social contract in Scotland than in many other countries which translates into a willingness to sacrifice individual interests for the greater good.

'I think there is a stronger sense of the social contract in Scotland than in many other countries which translates into a willingness to sacrifice individual interests for the greater good.'

Absolutely, it is communitarianism versus individualism, socialism versus individual freedom, state versus the individual, named person bureaucracy versus independence.

America is like England only more so, more based on individualism over communitarianism.

I was wondering if maybe the reason why there was auch a difference between how Scotland and England (ex London) voted is because Scotland has their own parliament etc. Could this whole thing have been avoided by giving the English devolved powers?

I'm also wondering - all these complaints about unelected leaders. Presumably Brexiteers are anti-monarchy? I don't recall any elections for the role of Queen a

'Could this whole thing have been avoided by giving the English devolved powers? '

No, because the majprity of the English want independence from the EU and the majority of Scots don't.

'Presumably Brexiteers are anti-monarchy? '

Some are, some aren't, but the Monarchy does not interfere with our liberties, they don't restrict our rights and therefore they are not a problem for our freedom, unlike the unelected bureaucrats in Brussels.

I'd be fine in America, but most people wouldn't. I have private health insurance and private education.

I believe in the welfare state and helping those worse off.

This vote means doing that either won't happen (conservatives don't give a shit about the less well off), or it's going to cost me a lot more in taxes.

DH and I are toying with moving to the EU now, we are bi-lingual and have a home abroad, we would get jobs with our professional qualifications.

Anyone remember the brain drain of the 70s? I was too young, but I believe it was damaging to our economy.