Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Brexit
Original poster

Why is Scotland so different?

430 replies

Indiestarr · 26/06/2016 13:10

Does anyone have any insight? Presumably Scotland has the same post-industrial decline and deprivation issues as the north east of England and Wales, and yet their vote was pretty much the complete opposite of these areas. How is it they are almost uniformly progressive when the rest of the UK (NI aside) is anything but?

OP posts:
tadjennyp · 26/06/2016 18:01

But also, I think we're actually a bit better about holding politicians responsible for stuff, so when they go, oh immigration is causing X y or z, more people are going, eh? No...your cuts are.

You have MSPs who can deal with local issues much more effectively than Westminster MPs. In England we have a combination of district and county councillors, or London Assembly members or whatever and they really don't have anything like power Holyrood has. Even the devolution options that Osborne has proposed are piecemeal and toothless. I really believe that if we had even devolution across the UK it would never have come to this situation.
And please don't think that Claig speaks for all of England. My area voted 60-40 remain (much higher than Moray, for example), has lots of immigrants, but they mostly work in the University or related companies.

tabulahrasa · 26/06/2016 18:29

Rose - oban absolutely has a lot more than 2 Smile not as many as where I am now in west Lothian, but significant numbers given the size of it.

Yes there are nowhere near the same numbers in Scotland as in England, but then the same is true of people, lol.

It is a very different situation and some of it is definitely because Scotland doesn't accept politicians trying to blame other things for their failures (well except Westminster we seem happy enough to accept that as a reason when it isn't)

tad - it's partly because we have holyrood, but in all honesty I think it's because Scotland expects politicians to deal badly with it, so we're just less willing to accept what they say. Again not because the people are intrinsically different, just because of our political history.

Oh and I'm well used to claig, she's a very prolific poster in the politics board.

shazzarooney999 · 26/06/2016 18:31

Well done Nicola Sturgeon!!!! youve played a blinder, we have hope yet!!!

Globetrotter100 · 26/06/2016 18:45

Brilliant. She's a very intelligent woman indeed.

FloatIsRechargedNow · 26/06/2016 18:53

I'm back to the debate a bit late, agree with her or not, Sturgeon is playing a 'blinder' and is a very clever woman indeed. Total respect from me.

SmallLegsOrSmallEggs · 26/06/2016 18:58

NS has been aware for some time this could go either way so has made plans for both eventualities.

unlike Boris and the rest of the Tory party

scarlets · 26/06/2016 19:09

Nicola and Ruth. Both anti-Brexit, they command confidence despite being unalike politically.

glassgarden · 26/06/2016 19:40

is it really in Scotland's interests to join the EU independently of England?

tabulahrasa · 26/06/2016 19:48

"is it really in Scotland's interests to join the EU independently of England?"

I think so, depending on whether they'd have us and on what terms, I'm sure others will disagree...

But it has to be one of the options explored given that we did vote against leaving.

glassgarden · 26/06/2016 19:57

I just cant see the Scots wanting to kowtow to Brussels

wouldn't they have to apply and then wait a while, during which time who knows what the fallout in the EU will be post brexit vote

this is like the universe in the first few milliseconds after the big bang, the laws of physics are still up for grabs, energy has not yet coalesced into matter

Salene · 26/06/2016 20:02

It was tactical voting to try and kick off a second Indy ref, nothing more than that.

Driven by the SNP, who are meant to represent the people but all they do is drive there own agenda and don't care Scotland voted NO.

Makes me very angry if I'm honest

dudeerschil · 26/06/2016 20:03

scotland has nothing apart from tourism and wine.

tabulahrasa · 26/06/2016 20:04

"I just cant see the Scots wanting to kowtow to Brussels"

Um, you do realise we already do...as we are in fact in the EU now, we're not somehow just up here floating about completely removed from governments.

Whether any terms the EU might offer us, if they're willing to that is, would be too much is a seperate thing.

StoorieHoose · 26/06/2016 20:05

"Tourism and wine"???????
Think you've been on the wine

tabulahrasa · 26/06/2016 20:07

"scotland has nothing apart from tourism and wine"

Ah we did that on another thread...

We have, whisky, oil worth nothing, fishing rites, potato patents, scabby sheep, midges and the ability to piss off the English.

StoorieHoose · 26/06/2016 20:07

My vote was not tactical and certainly as far as I know the SNP haven't implanted a chip into the populous making us vote the way they want us too

StoorieHoose · 26/06/2016 20:08

Whe you say wine are you talking about Buckie? It's the best selling wine in Svotland but it's not made here

lljkk · 26/06/2016 20:19

Hey Claig,
who are the elites? I mean, how would I know if I met one that they were or weren't?

AgentProvocateur · 26/06/2016 20:21

Yes, Scotland - that well-known wine producing nation Hmm

tabulahrasa · 26/06/2016 20:35

"who are the elites? I mean, how would I know if I met one that they were or weren't?"

Oh apparently it's something to do with not being a man of the people, whatever that means, being a multi millionaire doesn't make someone an elite nor does being a privately educated banker...

I've always assumed the non elites were people claig fancied TBH, it's about as good a theory as any as to how she decides who an elite is it isn't Wink

MunchCrunch01 · 26/06/2016 20:42

I agree with Lass - although I'm outraged at the idea that the SNP have been held to account or are a better class of politician - certainly not for being completely wrong about oil prices! Scotland would be in deep trouble if it were independent but so far sturgeon has been allowed to get away with saying that it's ok as other people were also wrong about oil prices. So that's alright then!

tabulahrasa · 26/06/2016 20:54

"although I'm outraged at the idea that the SNP have been held to account or are a better class of politician"

Not the SNP, holyrood politicians in general.

That's why you end up with people like Ruth Davidson, who is widely respected despite representing a fairly unpopular party (yes, I know there are more Scottish Tory voters than are represented etc.etc.) because she's a better class of politician than ends up in Westminster turning everything into a leadership contest, she actually does her job.

I don't agree with her politics, but I think she's a good politician.

That's what I'm talking about when I say there's a better class of politician, people who are good at it, treat it properly and are admirable whatever their political leanings.

Not every MSP, but as a whole I think Holyrood has better politicians.

MunchCrunch01 · 26/06/2016 21:00

I can agree about the non SNP politicians, for sure, I moved to Scotland 6 years ago and I have been impressed by some of those, and utterly appalled by the SNP.

AyeAmarok · 26/06/2016 21:15

Yes but because the SNP have had such a massive rise, they now have a lot of MPs and politicians who actually aren't politicians. They're just Joe Public really.

The good ones are very good, even of you don't agree with their politics.

claig · 26/06/2016 21:22

'who are the elites? '

Have a read of this Guardian article and many more like it about Brexit in the Guardian, Times etc They go some way to explaining it.

"In this Brexit vote, the poor turned on an elite who ignored them"

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/25/brexit-vote-poor-elite