AIBU to think many Remainers will echo Lily Allen

[sandrabedminster]

Lily voted to remain, but is now exited about brexit and admits she was brainwashed by project fear.

I feel many uneducated and easily swayed remainders like her will see actually change is good, as it was shit and this is a real change.

Boners thank you for your list of remain voting cities. I'm adding Leicester.

My city voted 74% to remain. Huge amount of bad feeling here.

Oh yes of course Leicester. I also forgot Newcastle, Cambridge and Derry/Londonderry (although as we learned a few posts back, NI doesn't matter anyway, so fuck em). And obviously yes every city in Scotland pearlylum.

Nice analogy noblegiraffe. I do think that's going to be the narrative from the more clueless branch of the Leave camp, actually. I saw some cheeky cunt on the news last night whining because people are behaving disgustingly in pointing out what the economic impact has been and is going to be, and they'll cause a recession. I haven't been so impressed with anyone's brass neck since Farage disowned the NHS thing a few hours after the result was announced. I have taken a decision that has plunged us into economic turmoil and stands to decimate our economy, but I have the right not to be exposed to any information that points this out to me, and it is other people's responsibility to fix so I do not have to face the consequences of my choices.

REMAIN

No panic on the Titanic! The markets had a wobble after the initial results on Friday, but are now holding their breaths. Never any question re the EU being tough with post Brexit negotiations, which is is when we could see the market effects. May be stating obvious but assuming Boris et al are in charge, business needs will drive negotiations, so I suspect a free movement deal as opposed to listening to what the voters wanted - reduced immigration.

As a Londonder I was relieved when Boris's tenure as mayor came to an end, so less than happy at the prospect of him running the country.

Looking into my crystal ball...
IMO Boris will do what big businesses want as he wants London as the financial capital of the world. He will strive to make Britain great, and seek oversees investors to fund projects, so will need to make investing in the UK an attractive prospect for said investors. Based on past events I think he could relax employment laws, restrict unions ability to strike etc... Also further cuts to help fund restructuring costs. I don't see him doing anything to change the ever increasing disparity between rich and poor, which could see labour voted back in.

I don't think the country will crash and burn, but i'm worried about green laws/policies, employment laws and shifting towards US (work and business culture, as well as closer allies) and watering down human rights. Economy wasn't my primary concern. Europe needed some work, but was at least facing the right direction.

Too sleep deprived from 5 month DD's sleep regression to type anymore...

You haven't worked in the city then. I've seen shitloads since the early 90s and this is bad.

Piranha2, I've been searching for weeks for any kind of intelligent argument for Leave as it's been genuinely baffling me how people could vote for a few slogans (take control back 😫) and a bunch of lies (the £350m was admitted by everyone including Bojo to be a lie even before the ref), and yours is the best argument I've seen, it has actual logic. Unfortunately it supposes that our government would govern in a way they've never promised to do (taking in refugees, treating their own citizens more fairly etc), and in a way their records prove is simply not in their nature. That's my biggest problem here is that people voted in the better scenarios, because they didn't like the way the EU works without looking to see if the alternative was better, and are now finding out an alternative doesn't even exist! You've burned down the house without checking if there's somewhere for you to live. And worse than that, the people who gave you the matches stand ready to take your car from you too. The idea of Bojo (been an MP for 1 yr, never been a minister), Gove (destroyer of education), Hunt (destroyer of NHS) or IDS (destroyer of lives for those unfortunate enough to need help) will offer the benevolent society you suggest is utterly ludicrous. I genuinely wake up each morning since Friday wondering what the hell happened to our (by and large) tolerant, outward looking, prosperous country 😕

practically, all the indications are that long term being outside the EU will have to look very much like being inside the EU, which is going to be disappointing to alot of Leavers.

I'm not sure how much the fortunes of FTSE companies reflect the UK's fortunes - many of them are multinationals with bases of operation outside the UK - maybe it shows more about the confidence of traders in themselves than confidence in the UK.

However, how long can we keep going with this limbo? Why would any country invest in the UK (actually setting up a factory or office, not just buying shares) if we can't tell anyone what the UK is, even to the extent of defining its borders?

I think it will become increasingly evident that while Boris might not want to be hasty, there is no fannying around option.

I was discussing this with my XP the other day - he's an experienced economist.

I'm afraid the forecast for the UK is absolutely dire and terrible damage, which we will struggle to recover from, has already been done.

Liz so our credit rating wasn't downgraded two places yesterday. Share trading wasn't suspended by banks than. It is obviously all in our head because we are bitter we lost.

Oh but that makes him an "expert" *flippinada" and we are all sick of experts apparently

Chatting to some of my Reain friends, they voted remain, not because they believed in the EU, but because they were too scared to leave! I've heard more of that than I have of Brexit regret.

Ideally we need a Norway type agreement with the EU but that then gives us the freedom to negotiate and join other trade blocks around the world too.

The potential returns in the worlds emerging economies is potentially far greater than being held back by looking inwards to the EU.

If we'd left it any longer we'd have been too enmeshed in the EU political superstate to leave, that's the reasoning behind ever tightening EU integration. No other trade block is that emeshed and are a more attractive proposition.

Yes. All is not lost though folks because not thinking about it, being positive and pulling together as a nation will sort it all out.

The people who won't feel the pain are those who aren't in work, receive state or final salary pension, who don't run a business, don't have a mortgage it savings. They might whinge about having to get a visa for their hols or not getting as many euros to the pound.

Yes, much easier to be sit back and be sanguine about it all if you're older and/or already financially secure and comfortable.

It's those of us at the sharp end (that would be me) who are going to suffer the most.

I'm at the sharp end too, as is my DH and the 2/3 of people in my town who voted to leave. We aren't in an affluent areas but aren't poor either, we aren't and older cummunity, we have low enempoyement and a liw propellor potion of immigrants. We don't fit the stereotype that many remain voters assume is the norm. So many don't.

It's really about time sone remain voters started to think for themselves about why others voted differently to them.

So you're not poor then. I am. I'm a working single parent on a low salary with a primary school aged child.

Come on them, I'm listening. Let's hear your reasons for voting leave.

Joysmum, I'm a remain voter and I have been thinking about why others voted differently, I really, really have, but I can't figure it out. Honestly, not being sarky or difficult, I just don't get it. I'm longing for someone to put a logical reason forward. I mentioned earlier that Pirhana2's post was the closest I've come to it but IMHO it fell down in the fact that she had genuine criticisms of the EU, but blind faith that the UK parliament would do better, when even when we had a proper government (last Thursday) their words and deeds suggested nothing of the sort. I'd really love to hear a Leave voter give me another perspective. I'm so upset right now that someone presenting some facts that I've missed would be most welcome.

I dont have to think at all about why people voted differently to me

I think leave voters are wrong, i think the majority (like the remain majority) voted the way they did because they believe its the best for the country

But i still think they are wrong....really looking forward to them being proved right though

Joysmum That narrative about poor,high-immigrant areas voting Leave is a bit off/wrong. Statistics don't show a strong correlation between those areas and voting Leave. The 'clump' of Leave areas seems to be areas such as the one you describe - with some big outliers (such as Blackpool - and another place beginning with B!).

Someone showed me statistics that showed the strongest correlation between voting preference and views on progressive values, eg. if you are less inclined towards progressive values, you are more inclined towards 'Leave'

I think a huge number of Leave voters (not necessarily the ones who are on MN) voted because of immigration. It is all over the media, in street interviews, opinion polls. From some of the stuff I've seen, I honestly think some thought that vote leave meant that the immigrants (even non-EU) would be 'Leaving'.

A BBC R4 journalist was called a P* in her home town of Basingstoke yesterday. Just one of the huge number of reports of post-referendum racist attacks.

EU migrants are being asked "when they are packing their bags". The sun was reporting how Brexit won: "in streets full of Polish shops" within 24 hrs of the result. Then today they have the sheer nerve to tell everyone to "pull together". Remain voted to stay together in the first place. The bloody hypocrisy of the RW press.

And all this for what? The economy has nosedived and we have a leadership vacuum. Oh, and Nige is waving the British flag in Juncker's face, and basically insulting them. Great - way to go Nige! That'll get us an excellent post exit deal. But don't worry, the band is still playing while we sink. Life's great, isn't it?

What about the British tax paying pensioners (PAYE) who live in Europe - as is their right. I live in Paris where, because of MS (being willingly treated FOC by the French Health Service) my only income is my British, sterling, much robbed, much mauled pension. Brexit crucified it overnight.

I am far from alone, people have important reasons for living where they do, and Paris is vastly closer to Westminster than say Newcastle. I'm British through and through, I am married to a French partner, I pay British tax on my British pension, which was entirely at the mercy of this ill-run referendum and was instantly decimated. And yet I was not allowed to vote. Can anyone give me a VALID reason why? Nobody has so far.
'No taxation without representation"....?

Beautiful Boris, (Donald Trump's favorite American comedian) told us yesterday that what the idiot calls "Project Fear" is over. Clearly he didn't take in what Brussels did to Greece when they threatened EU stability. Boris went on to reassure us yesterday that pensions were not threatened by the collapse of the pound.... He then went on to say that British citizens living in Europe would have their rights protected.

Boris Johnson is a dangerous clown. How can I put this?

Boris has not only farted in Europe's lift but he has "followed through" in a big way and is very unlikely to find much help with Brexit now. The boy is deluded.

A reminder, my question is "Can anyone give a VALID reason why any British tax paying pensioners were denied such an important vote?" If someone comes up with "Well you chose to live in Europe" your beastly, petty xenophobic attitude will simply shine through.

No. No-one I know who voted remain feels like this.

HTH.

Everyone I know who voted remain (which is pretty much all my friends and colleagues) are horrified by the result, saddened by the consequences and appalled at the resulting political chaos. They are scared for the economy and worried about the racists.

I am proud to be talking about democratic rights. Equally backed up by George Osbourne today in The Times " We had the EU referendum. the outcome isn't the one I wanted, but now we have got to work to deliver the verdict of the people"
You are correct that I didn't mention Northern Ireland, I was guilty of that error. However, if you read the main thread of my post, it was not about the breakdown of the vote in cities,v outside cities it was more a defence of the reasons I chose to exercise my democratic right to vote, the way I did.
You are correct that many cities voted for Remain, whilst most areas outside of cities voted out. It's an observation, many have made that observation.
However, you are flawed or biased in your analysis of the breakdown of votes, in which you fail to mention the UK cities which did vote out eg the Uks second city's terms of population, at over 1.1 million ,Birmingham, a multicultural city, who voted out. Instead you have chosen to add weight to your argument by adding cities such as Oxford a population of appx 158,000 of which one third are students. If you chose to argue that I shouldn't cherry pick results,( I accept the NI error) then you need to be factually accurate otherwise it's hypocritical.
Unfortunately for you and fellow Remainers 52% of the turnout voted for Brexit. At least the leaders of the Remain campaign understand how democracy works.

Sometimes fear is a good thing. It stops us jumping off cliffs and putting our hands into flames and all manner of things that would be permanently fatal and/or disastrous.
This time though we were supposed to laugh in the face of fear, ignore common sense and expert opinions we could research and verify as being correct with a few moments effort and believe in fairy dust and positivity to carry us through.
I now have to live with the result and make the best of it as the rest of the country do. We can't turn back time.
When a loved one dies and a person grieves their loss and tries to find ways to ease the pain by saying they will move on it and make the best of it doesn't mean they are happy the person died or that they wish they'd hurried them along to experience the novelty of bereavement sooner.
It means they have to live with what they have to live with. We'll all do that but I wish people would stop trying to invalidate people's genuine upset and fear for the future.
The Remainers have to live with democracy and its results and so do the Leavers equally which means the Leavers have to live with the Remainers' democratic right to express their sorrow and upset at the result.
You don't get to win and then jump up and down on the losers for an encore. There was a time when gloating over victory was seen as very unBritish. Now that's something I am nostalgic for.