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Brexit

Misconceptions about Leave Voters

141 replies

Asprilla11 · 25/06/2016 22:02

There has been a lot of ill-informed, generalising and just downright nasty lies and comments in the past couple of days, from BOTH sides.

I'd like to offer what I consider is a more accurate set of reasons and beliefs as to why people voted leave, as I did.

All the leave voters are racist or xenophobic and only voted because of immigration

Simply not true, you only have to look at the numbers involved.

17 million people voted leave, lets say all UKIP voters are racist (I don't know if they are as I am not a UKIP voter but for arguments sake) and all of them voted leave because of immigration (5 million max). Now lets say the odious Farage, Johnson and Gove persuaded another 3 million people to vote solely on immigration, who may or may not have had legitimate concerns about it, that is 8 million, which I think is generous to say the least. Were they all racist or xenophobic? I doubt it!

All leave voters are thick, poorly educated or even uneducated who didn't understand

and

All young people voted remain and all old people voted leave and shafted their children and grandchildren

A few people who voted remain have pointed to a few surveys that have been done to find out who voted what way and what their backgrounds are. These surveys seemed to show that the younger people voted remain and the oap's voted leave. They also seemed to show that a higher proportion of people who voted remain have degrees (and higher) and so they must be more intelligent.

Whilst I don't doubt this could well be the case, I'd also point out the surveys were of less than 20,000 people, out of the more than 33 million people that voted, such a small survey size, even if you add all the surveys together is still far too small to be called statistically valid.
There is also the fact that people with a degree (or higher) are not automatically more intelligent, there are many degrees that would have no impact at all on how intelligent someone is when faced with a political decision. It's also naive and quite frankly insulting to suggest people who haven't been to University are less intelligent, it's another generalisation.

Leave voters thought there will now be zero immigration from the EU and are shocked to hear it won't be the case

Again simply not true. Most leave voters, (especially the ones who didn't vote to do with immigration) know fine well there will still be immigration from both EU and None-EU countries, they simply wanted the ability to choose the right people, from all countries that will bring an immediate benefit to the UK.

I don't doubt that some of the racist or xenophobic leave voters actually thought this would be the case, but they are in the minority, not the majority. Don't judge your opinions from forums, comments sections, radio and tv interviews because they don't add up to 17 million.

All leave voters hate immigrants

Nope and I would say it's only the minority that do, or may do. Neither do the majority want or expect the EU immigrants already here to leave, we just simply don't them to. However what some of the remain voters don't understand is that immigration in some areas of the UK does provide problems, espcially in the poorest parts of the country. Not all immigrants work and nor do all british people, put if you have a part of the country where unemployment is high, wages are low and housing is poor and then you move the poorest of the immigrants in to the same area then you are going to have tension, especially if some of the immigrants don't try to integrate. But if you also factor in that some of those poorer british residents are racist then who do you think they are going to target their fury at?

Immigration doesn't bother me, here in Newcastle we aren't greatly affected. I know EU immigration has been more than positive to the UK economy and diversity. I also know they pay in far, far more than they take out (there are much more british people who leech of the state compared to EU people) and provide vital roles in the NHS and care systems and much more. The issue isn't with where the immigrants come from it's with where they are going to live and the additional service needs it brings. It is a fact that there is not enough houses being built each year to cope with the current UK population growth rate, so when you add over 300,000 extra immigrants then we really, really do need more houses, more schools, more Doctors etc.

Personally I think a hold on immigration (still welcome refugees and asylum seekers) until those houses and schools are built isn't an unreasonable thing to consider. Or you bring in immigrants to build the houses and schools.

Leave voters are little Englanders who don't care about the UK or Europe

Again not true, in fact I think the lack of concern the UK has showed to Greece, Spain, Portugal and other struggling EU countries has been very disappointing and that includes remain voters. Those problems can't be fixed by the EU, it's broken. Look in to Jean-Claude Junker's history and interviews with him (before the referendum) and how the EU Commission vote, how much they spend on travel and accommodation and needless spending. The EU is corrupt and it serves the interests of only a few, not the majority.

The EU will fall apart in the next 2-3 years. But actually I'd like the UK to look towards forming something knew in Europe, that really helps all EU countries and agrees on trade deals (both in and out of the EU), immigration (perhaps each country has a ever reviewed limit relative to it's size etc) and legislation. The current EU does not have that in an open, fair and accountable way.

Have a read of these articles
www.theguardian.com/politics/commentisfree/2016/jun/24/divided-britain-brexit-money-class-inequality-westminster

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/25/london-separate-city-state-leave-voters-class

And finally a video from Digby Jones (starts at 44 secs) is he a 'thick' leaver?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQUZ5YOP6Ss

OP posts:
Asprilla11 · 25/06/2016 22:29

You think all remain voters are the same?

No because it would be silly to think everyone is the same, I wonder where I got the phrase from? Smile

OP posts:
MumOnTheRunCatchingUp · 25/06/2016 22:31

Very interesting article op

Thank you Smile

MumOnTheRunCatchingUp · 25/06/2016 22:32

Why does op have to 'back up' anything stealth

She doesn't

happyandsingle · 25/06/2016 22:32

I chose quality of life over money. Short term losses are worth it for long term benifits.

StealthPolarBear · 25/06/2016 22:33

Mum she said the sample size wasn't big enough to be significant. She doesn't have to back it up, but she is wrong! Are you happy to make decisions based on lies and unsubstantiated statements?

PurpleRainDiamondsandPearls · 25/06/2016 22:34

You don't seem to have a very good grasp on understanding research. Also, I'm curious as to why you thought we needed yet another thread. You haven't added anything groundbreaking or brought anything new to the table. Debate is interesting but not across 40 odd threads, spamming up AIBU.

StealthPolarBear · 25/06/2016 22:34

The sky is green

katemiddletonsnudeheels · 25/06/2016 22:35

I am interested in how the left wing case for Brexit has been drowned out.

I voted out largely because of the Lexit video! I think Tony Benn would be a bit shocked to discover MN have branded him a right wing bigot with a small willy Grin

Possibilityofanisland · 25/06/2016 22:36

13% of exports to the EU? Really? Isn't it more like 45%, with Germany being our biggest trading partner.

BillSykesDog · 25/06/2016 22:37

So stealth, how come all the polling companies called the referendum and the GE wrong if these surveys produce such reliable statistics?

Possibilityofanisland · 25/06/2016 22:37

Quality of life Grin

What the hell does that mean? What do you think you'll gain from all this?

Asprilla11 · 25/06/2016 22:38

PatriciaHolm StealthPolarBear Yes the surveys are statistically valid but I don't few them as statistically important, all they show is that the majority of older people and the majority of younger people may have voted a certain way and some of them may have been more highly educated than others.

But it doesn't show they are more intelligent or that their reasons for voting or their knowledge of why they were voting a certain way is more valid for one side than the other.

OP posts:
Asprilla11 · 25/06/2016 22:40

view not few Blush

OP posts:
Changesofmind · 25/06/2016 22:42

The surveys don't comment on intelligence.

But they do clearly demonstrate that leave voters have a lack of education, or are amongst the older population. I have to agree, as the only two people I know that voted leave (compared to the hundreds of people I know who voted to remain) didn't get a higher education, and it shows.

StealthPolarBear · 25/06/2016 22:44

No idea bill. I don't pretend to know all this stuff.

ReallyTired · 25/06/2016 22:46

I think its naivity to think that all leave voters are either uneduated or poor or anti immigration.

I feel that EU parliment and commisioners are very detached from the people they make decisions about. They are wanting increasing integration and I want self determination for the British people. Infact many of my reasons are similar to scots who want an independence referendum.

The arrogance and nastiness of Junker makes glad that the UK is getting away from that bully. Why should it matter if democratic countries like the Netherlands or France might want a referendum as well. Why is it so stupid to ask the working class voters of sunderland for their opinon.

katemiddletonsnudeheels · 25/06/2016 22:46

Undoubtedly, although as I'm sure you know there are numerous exceptions to the rule, but then I imagine more conservative voters are likely to have a degree. I'm sure there would be outrage on here if it was implied that this is because they are right! What I suspect to be the case is that people with degrees are more likely to be the ones with most to lose following an exit from the EU. These are the homeowners and the ones working in London. It doesn't equate to clever people = in, stupid people = out.

Asprilla11 · 25/06/2016 22:54

Oh and the other remain voters claim is "Not all leave voters are racists but all racists voted leave"

Again not true, are you saying out of 16 million remain voters there wasn't a single wealthy voter who is racist but instead voted to remain to protect their wealth?

OP posts:
katemiddletonsnudeheels · 25/06/2016 23:00

According to this [[http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2572187/The-secrets-ballot-box-Tories-earn-Labour-voters-rent-home-Lib-Dems-better-educated-Ukip-voters-white-retired.html ]] (mail link) the level of education is

Liberal democrats - 31% of voters have a degree
Conservative - 29% of voters have a degree
Labour - 25% of voters have a degree
UKIP - 18% of voters have a degree

If we are to state loftily that brexiters lack education, we have to surely state the same about labour voters? After all, according to above, they aren't as educated as the conservatives.

WelshBird1 · 25/06/2016 23:00

The thing is,you can ask Brexiters for answers....but ...as I've seen numerous times since the result on here it really doesn't matter what they say does it??

The world & his wife are poised,ready to cut them down by hook or by crook & say how shit/wrong leaving is & it has fucked everything up for the UK ,no matter what brexiters say,they are not believed & people don't want to know the reasoning behind the vote.

katemiddletonsnudeheels · 25/06/2016 23:01

Bad link! I need to educate myself on how to post links, I think! Grin

StealthPolarBear · 25/06/2016 23:01

Just seen a comment on fb along the lines of calm down people it's a minimum of two years before we leave and the eu will have imploded before then.

  1. maximum, not minimum
  2. oh well that's ok then. Well all be happy wont we
StealthPolarBear · 25/06/2016 23:02

But lib dems are more educated (according to that anyway).

StealthPolarBear · 25/06/2016 23:03

Which way do you think they'll have tended to vote

AlpacaLypse · 25/06/2016 23:03

Hello ChangesOfMind (and any one else who doesn't know anyone who voted Leave who isn't one of the less educated and privileged classes)...

I'm a graduate, I'm female, I'm middle class, and I voted Leave. The EU is undemocratic and by its own design, un-reformable. Its basic structure was designed by people who (quite understandably) were scared shitless of another Germany 1933 situation occurring.

They didn't really take on board that in the end the only European country that was neither invaded or forced to collaborate would join. And that eventually that country would get utterly fed up of being talked down to. So we voted Leave when we finally given an option to do so. Perhaps they shouldn't have been such bossy boots in the first place? And perhaps it might be a good idea to actually listen to the grass roots, rather than pat them on the head and say there there, don't worry, here, have a nice little subsidy?

Interesting stuff coming from lots of EU countries about wanting their own referendums btw...

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