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Brexit

Misconceptions about Leave Voters

141 replies

Asprilla11 · 25/06/2016 22:02

There has been a lot of ill-informed, generalising and just downright nasty lies and comments in the past couple of days, from BOTH sides.

I'd like to offer what I consider is a more accurate set of reasons and beliefs as to why people voted leave, as I did.

All the leave voters are racist or xenophobic and only voted because of immigration

Simply not true, you only have to look at the numbers involved.

17 million people voted leave, lets say all UKIP voters are racist (I don't know if they are as I am not a UKIP voter but for arguments sake) and all of them voted leave because of immigration (5 million max). Now lets say the odious Farage, Johnson and Gove persuaded another 3 million people to vote solely on immigration, who may or may not have had legitimate concerns about it, that is 8 million, which I think is generous to say the least. Were they all racist or xenophobic? I doubt it!

All leave voters are thick, poorly educated or even uneducated who didn't understand

and

All young people voted remain and all old people voted leave and shafted their children and grandchildren

A few people who voted remain have pointed to a few surveys that have been done to find out who voted what way and what their backgrounds are. These surveys seemed to show that the younger people voted remain and the oap's voted leave. They also seemed to show that a higher proportion of people who voted remain have degrees (and higher) and so they must be more intelligent.

Whilst I don't doubt this could well be the case, I'd also point out the surveys were of less than 20,000 people, out of the more than 33 million people that voted, such a small survey size, even if you add all the surveys together is still far too small to be called statistically valid.
There is also the fact that people with a degree (or higher) are not automatically more intelligent, there are many degrees that would have no impact at all on how intelligent someone is when faced with a political decision. It's also naive and quite frankly insulting to suggest people who haven't been to University are less intelligent, it's another generalisation.

Leave voters thought there will now be zero immigration from the EU and are shocked to hear it won't be the case

Again simply not true. Most leave voters, (especially the ones who didn't vote to do with immigration) know fine well there will still be immigration from both EU and None-EU countries, they simply wanted the ability to choose the right people, from all countries that will bring an immediate benefit to the UK.

I don't doubt that some of the racist or xenophobic leave voters actually thought this would be the case, but they are in the minority, not the majority. Don't judge your opinions from forums, comments sections, radio and tv interviews because they don't add up to 17 million.

All leave voters hate immigrants

Nope and I would say it's only the minority that do, or may do. Neither do the majority want or expect the EU immigrants already here to leave, we just simply don't them to. However what some of the remain voters don't understand is that immigration in some areas of the UK does provide problems, espcially in the poorest parts of the country. Not all immigrants work and nor do all british people, put if you have a part of the country where unemployment is high, wages are low and housing is poor and then you move the poorest of the immigrants in to the same area then you are going to have tension, especially if some of the immigrants don't try to integrate. But if you also factor in that some of those poorer british residents are racist then who do you think they are going to target their fury at?

Immigration doesn't bother me, here in Newcastle we aren't greatly affected. I know EU immigration has been more than positive to the UK economy and diversity. I also know they pay in far, far more than they take out (there are much more british people who leech of the state compared to EU people) and provide vital roles in the NHS and care systems and much more. The issue isn't with where the immigrants come from it's with where they are going to live and the additional service needs it brings. It is a fact that there is not enough houses being built each year to cope with the current UK population growth rate, so when you add over 300,000 extra immigrants then we really, really do need more houses, more schools, more Doctors etc.

Personally I think a hold on immigration (still welcome refugees and asylum seekers) until those houses and schools are built isn't an unreasonable thing to consider. Or you bring in immigrants to build the houses and schools.

Leave voters are little Englanders who don't care about the UK or Europe

Again not true, in fact I think the lack of concern the UK has showed to Greece, Spain, Portugal and other struggling EU countries has been very disappointing and that includes remain voters. Those problems can't be fixed by the EU, it's broken. Look in to Jean-Claude Junker's history and interviews with him (before the referendum) and how the EU Commission vote, how much they spend on travel and accommodation and needless spending. The EU is corrupt and it serves the interests of only a few, not the majority.

The EU will fall apart in the next 2-3 years. But actually I'd like the UK to look towards forming something knew in Europe, that really helps all EU countries and agrees on trade deals (both in and out of the EU), immigration (perhaps each country has a ever reviewed limit relative to it's size etc) and legislation. The current EU does not have that in an open, fair and accountable way.

Have a read of these articles
www.theguardian.com/politics/commentisfree/2016/jun/24/divided-britain-brexit-money-class-inequality-westminster

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/25/london-separate-city-state-leave-voters-class

And finally a video from Digby Jones (starts at 44 secs) is he a 'thick' leaver?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQUZ5YOP6Ss

OP posts:
happyandsingle · 25/06/2016 23:05

If the eu is such a good place to be why are so many other countries demanding a vote?

katemiddletonsnudeheels · 25/06/2016 23:06

Yes, so on that logic, LibDems are always right and moral, Conservatives are mostly right and moral, Labour are sometimes right and moral and UKIP are never right and moral Grin

But last spring the Conservative party were purely evil psychotics, yet they are the party more educated people vote for than Labour.

So either - someone's education doesn't make them right, OR, people vote in their own interests. I suspect both are true!

PumpkinPies38 · 25/06/2016 23:08

OP there are a lot of disappointed people out there who have assumed the moral high ground but ironically will be out in their swathes to rubbish and belittle you because your choice was different to theirs.

It'll don't understand how people can't see the irony in reading the vitriol and generalising coming from remain voters towards those that chose to vote leave. It's not all about race at all. It's boring and arrogant to keep claiming otherwise.

BigChocFrenzy · 25/06/2016 23:37

It looks more that people who are doing well out of the system, voted in.
Those who the system failed voted out, in anger / desperation.
There may be a rough correlation with success / education, but who your parents were has a massive effect on your prospects

Roonerspism · 25/06/2016 23:42

I'm female. Highly educated. Well travelled. I voted Leave.

My vote was based on the arguments above but principally the fact that the EU was taking us to a place we hadn't asked to travel to. This superstate of nations.

There always been a certain about of gritty, independent backbone to the UK people, in all their diverse glory, and god has that spoken up.

BillSykesDog · 25/06/2016 23:44

All this stuff about education - it doesn't just correlate with intelligence, it correlates with income too. People with more income are more likely to have qualifications. So really it's just another way of saying that poor people are uneducated oiks who deserve to be poor, it's all their own fault and therefore they deserve no vote because their poorness/lack of qualifications indicates personal defectiveness which means they are not fit to vote.

And people saying that have the nerve to accuse other people of being extremists...

HopeClearwater · 25/06/2016 23:44

I think the biggest misconception about leave voters is that they had a clue what they were voting for.

This.

HopeClearwater · 25/06/2016 23:47

People with more income are more likely to have qualifications.

The causative effect is other way round. Qualifications are likely to lead to higher income. And people who have been educated are generally more able to see through poorly-constructed, illogical arguments and great big whoppers like those we saw painted on the side of a bus.

Asprilla11 · 25/06/2016 23:47

Roonerspism I totally agree. I am also not anti europe, in fact if the current EU does fall apart (as I expect) I would actually want the UK to lead the way in forming some sort of beneficial EU trade market, with other agreed benefits that help all the EU countries.

To me that would be an even bigger positive outcome to the UK leaving.

OP posts:
MrHannahSnell · 25/06/2016 23:48

The Biscuit was on account of your seeming need to justify you voting choice, not the way you voted (appealing though that was). BTW on the basis of some of his pronouncements when he was running the CBI, I am not over impressed by Digby Jones or his opinions.

MrHannahSnell · 25/06/2016 23:49

appalling though that was

Asprilla11 · 25/06/2016 23:50

"The causative effect is other way round. Qualifications are likely to lead to higher income. And people who have been educated are generally more able to see through poorly-constructed, illogical arguments and great big whoppers like those we saw painted on the side of a bus."

Do you think people really voted because of a message on a bus that the vast majority of the UK didn't see?

OP posts:
BillSykesDog · 25/06/2016 23:53

And people who have been educated are generally more able to see through poorly-constructed, illogical arguments

Can you actually provide any evidence to back that up?

Surferjet · 25/06/2016 23:53

Great posts Asprilla11

Valentine2 · 25/06/2016 23:56

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antimatter · 25/06/2016 23:56

Glitterbug76

Our judges are constantly being over ruled after making decisions on dangerous criminal that have murdered and raped children, as apparently as its inhumain to make people serve life without parole.

I am really surprised you didn't do your research before choosing your reasons to vote leave. Please read explanation below:

The UK’s withdrawal from the EU does not automatically affect the UK’s status as a signatory to the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR). The ECHR is an international treaty distinct from the EU Treaties and EU Charter on Fundamental Rights (see our explainer). Currently, the rights in the European Convention on Human Rights are also protected in UK law through the Human Rights Act. British citizens are still able to rely on their rights in the ECHR in domestic courts and can still take cases to the European Court of Human Rights.

rightsinfo.org/brexit-doesnt-mean-uk-human-rights/

antimatter · 25/06/2016 23:59

By teachers having to teach to their class in many different languages ( many friends of mine are teachers and are increasingly frustrated by this) as the English children are saying they feel isolated in class !!

Did you mean to say that teachers are teaching in many different languages OR that the kids are speaking in many different languages?

My kids schools aren't struggling for cash because of migrants but because their funds are cut by the Government!

AnnaForbes · 26/06/2016 00:04

Valentine2, you are very aggressive, typical of a lot of the Remainers.

Op, I agree with you but I am losing the will to keep in explaining myself to the people who reject democracy. My dad was a non EU immigrant, dh is ethnic minority, I have three degrees including a Masters. I'm a Mensan. And I voted leave.

Tarring all those who voted leave with the same brush is no better than attributing characteristics to people because of the country of their origin.

retrorobot3 · 26/06/2016 00:06

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retrorobot3 · 26/06/2016 00:09

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A11TheSmallTh1ngs · 26/06/2016 00:15

retrorobot3

Yep. Well, let's see how well these public sector jobs fare in the stripped down America lite that we are about to create.

AnnaForbes · 26/06/2016 00:30

another example of how non-EU migrants into the U.K., with no cultural ties If you are referring to my dad, he died 4 years ago so I don't suppose he had much to do with boosting the leave vote.

retrorobot3 · 26/06/2016 00:35

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Cornishclio · 26/06/2016 00:46

www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2016/jun/25/brexit-live-emergency-meetings-eu-uk-leave-vote#comment-77205935

Interesting conspiracy theory about why Brexit won't go ahead

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