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Brexit

Misconceptions about Leave Voters

141 replies

Asprilla11 · 25/06/2016 22:02

There has been a lot of ill-informed, generalising and just downright nasty lies and comments in the past couple of days, from BOTH sides.

I'd like to offer what I consider is a more accurate set of reasons and beliefs as to why people voted leave, as I did.

All the leave voters are racist or xenophobic and only voted because of immigration

Simply not true, you only have to look at the numbers involved.

17 million people voted leave, lets say all UKIP voters are racist (I don't know if they are as I am not a UKIP voter but for arguments sake) and all of them voted leave because of immigration (5 million max). Now lets say the odious Farage, Johnson and Gove persuaded another 3 million people to vote solely on immigration, who may or may not have had legitimate concerns about it, that is 8 million, which I think is generous to say the least. Were they all racist or xenophobic? I doubt it!

All leave voters are thick, poorly educated or even uneducated who didn't understand

and

All young people voted remain and all old people voted leave and shafted their children and grandchildren

A few people who voted remain have pointed to a few surveys that have been done to find out who voted what way and what their backgrounds are. These surveys seemed to show that the younger people voted remain and the oap's voted leave. They also seemed to show that a higher proportion of people who voted remain have degrees (and higher) and so they must be more intelligent.

Whilst I don't doubt this could well be the case, I'd also point out the surveys were of less than 20,000 people, out of the more than 33 million people that voted, such a small survey size, even if you add all the surveys together is still far too small to be called statistically valid.
There is also the fact that people with a degree (or higher) are not automatically more intelligent, there are many degrees that would have no impact at all on how intelligent someone is when faced with a political decision. It's also naive and quite frankly insulting to suggest people who haven't been to University are less intelligent, it's another generalisation.

Leave voters thought there will now be zero immigration from the EU and are shocked to hear it won't be the case

Again simply not true. Most leave voters, (especially the ones who didn't vote to do with immigration) know fine well there will still be immigration from both EU and None-EU countries, they simply wanted the ability to choose the right people, from all countries that will bring an immediate benefit to the UK.

I don't doubt that some of the racist or xenophobic leave voters actually thought this would be the case, but they are in the minority, not the majority. Don't judge your opinions from forums, comments sections, radio and tv interviews because they don't add up to 17 million.

All leave voters hate immigrants

Nope and I would say it's only the minority that do, or may do. Neither do the majority want or expect the EU immigrants already here to leave, we just simply don't them to. However what some of the remain voters don't understand is that immigration in some areas of the UK does provide problems, espcially in the poorest parts of the country. Not all immigrants work and nor do all british people, put if you have a part of the country where unemployment is high, wages are low and housing is poor and then you move the poorest of the immigrants in to the same area then you are going to have tension, especially if some of the immigrants don't try to integrate. But if you also factor in that some of those poorer british residents are racist then who do you think they are going to target their fury at?

Immigration doesn't bother me, here in Newcastle we aren't greatly affected. I know EU immigration has been more than positive to the UK economy and diversity. I also know they pay in far, far more than they take out (there are much more british people who leech of the state compared to EU people) and provide vital roles in the NHS and care systems and much more. The issue isn't with where the immigrants come from it's with where they are going to live and the additional service needs it brings. It is a fact that there is not enough houses being built each year to cope with the current UK population growth rate, so when you add over 300,000 extra immigrants then we really, really do need more houses, more schools, more Doctors etc.

Personally I think a hold on immigration (still welcome refugees and asylum seekers) until those houses and schools are built isn't an unreasonable thing to consider. Or you bring in immigrants to build the houses and schools.

Leave voters are little Englanders who don't care about the UK or Europe

Again not true, in fact I think the lack of concern the UK has showed to Greece, Spain, Portugal and other struggling EU countries has been very disappointing and that includes remain voters. Those problems can't be fixed by the EU, it's broken. Look in to Jean-Claude Junker's history and interviews with him (before the referendum) and how the EU Commission vote, how much they spend on travel and accommodation and needless spending. The EU is corrupt and it serves the interests of only a few, not the majority.

The EU will fall apart in the next 2-3 years. But actually I'd like the UK to look towards forming something knew in Europe, that really helps all EU countries and agrees on trade deals (both in and out of the EU), immigration (perhaps each country has a ever reviewed limit relative to it's size etc) and legislation. The current EU does not have that in an open, fair and accountable way.

Have a read of these articles
www.theguardian.com/politics/commentisfree/2016/jun/24/divided-britain-brexit-money-class-inequality-westminster

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/25/london-separate-city-state-leave-voters-class

And finally a video from Digby Jones (starts at 44 secs) is he a 'thick' leaver?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQUZ5YOP6Ss

OP posts:
Asprilla11 · 26/06/2016 02:12

You started a thread bitching about the misconceptions people had about Leave voters, that is more than a little touchy

It wasn't bitching at all, I simply felt there were lots of remain voters on here who lacked the intelligence to realise that not all leave voters voted because of the same way and to keep saying they did is a massive generalisation.

Unfortunately a lot of them don't seem intelligent enough to grasp that Shock Shock Shock Grin

OP posts:
Alisvolatpropiis · 26/06/2016 02:14

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Asprilla11 · 26/06/2016 02:18

Ah ok, resort to insults because you can't disprove anything I've argued over. How mature and classy of you Grin

OP posts:
BillSykesDog · 26/06/2016 02:31

Yorkshire. I think his stance that the EU had a lot of problems and needed to change but on balance we were better in probably converted a lot more people up here than the rest of that party.

I mean, they were talking about things like the ease of going on holiday and roaming charges on the continent, and going into European education systems. How the hell was that supposed to be relatable?

As for the 'workers rights' the EU apparently gives us - well you try telling a care or factory worker on a minimum wage zero hour contract that all their lovely rights come from the EU. I've heard exactly those people laugh and say 'what rights?' over the last few weeks. Ditto construction workers (including my own DH) who know that a new state ascending will always mean a severe wage cut overnight. Try telling them that the EU is protecting them and they'd laugh in your face.

Corbyn's attitude was far closer to that of Labour's core voters up here than the rest of the Labour Party who were just trotting out the same old platitudes that nobody really believes anymore.

Asprilla11 · 26/06/2016 02:37

BillSykesDog If I thought for a second there was chance the EU would have reformed and acted in a way that benefited all EU members, not just the big country's and they agreed to better handle grants and expenses and audits, then I'dve voted Remain and encouraged others to do so.

Sadly they made their position clear.

OP posts:
retrorobot3 · 26/06/2016 04:11

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Asprilla11 · 26/06/2016 13:48

Really well written article on why people voted to leave the EU, it also has links in it to other supporting articles.

It's long, but well worth a read.

theintercept.com/2016/06/25/brexit-is-only-the-latest-proof-of-the-insularity-and-failure-of-western-establishment-institutions/?comments=1#comments

OP posts:
StealthPolarBear · 26/06/2016 13:51

So op hy do you think it'll be a minimum of two years before we are out?

Asprilla11 · 26/06/2016 13:58

I don't, I was replying on another thread about 'minimum' to do with something unrelated to the EU and it was still in my head. I meant to put maximum of 2 years, which is what it states in Article 50.

Picking up on one mistyped is hardly the revelation of the century.

OP posts:
StealthPolarBear · 26/06/2016 13:59

I was just wondering if you often said one thing bit meant the opposite.

Asprilla11 · 26/06/2016 14:01

Only when I say I'm gutted we didn't vote remain Wink

OP posts:
StealthPolarBear · 26/06/2016 14:02

Fair enough :)

VictorGollancz · 26/06/2016 14:08

As far as I can see, the majority of the Leave voters on here and other forms of social media seem far more concerned about denying racism in the Leave campaign than making a stand against it. I would feel much more confident in all the self-declared non-racist Leave voters if they were devoting their energies to routing out the racists in their midst. At the moment all the energy seems to be going towards complaining about the nasty Remain camp.

You voted Leave? You're not racist? Fabulous. Now go and sort out those who are using your vote to legitimise their disgusting racist ideals. You don't have to look very hard to find Britons of colour and those with European accents being abused in the most offensive way. Those doing the abusing are clearly part of the Leave camp. As long as this continues I cannot understand why anyone who voted Leave has got the energy to fight with Remain.

katemiddletonsnudeheels · 26/06/2016 15:19

Abusing people racially (or at all) is not acceptable, it wasn't acceptable on the 22nd of June and it isn't acceptable now. Racism is still illegal.

Glitterbug76 · 26/06/2016 20:15

Victor
So let's get this straight you want all leave voters to take personal responsibility for any one who is racist and re educate them !! I'm really sorry I don't know or mix with people that are !! My dad is Indian so I've seen first hand how evil racism is my friends are from all cultures, and my family have married people from other ethnic origins who mostly voted out are they racist ?? We are very tolerant in my community when the Bnp came to march they were cold shouldered. My dad broke down racial barriers with the way he was with people and taught me that so don't judge me on the small minority.

Roonerspism · 26/06/2016 20:19

Racism, sadly, existed before and still does. We must all fight it.

But a vote for Leave is not a vote for racism. I simply do not understand it and would like it explained to me. Who exactly is the Leave voter being racist against? What does racism mean in this context?

Many Leave voters, me being one of them, seriously worried about the far right rising across the EU and in the UK as a result of a whole heap of problems, primarily caused by the EU in the first place. The far right rises when people don't prosper.

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