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Brexit

Misconceptions about Leave Voters

141 replies

Asprilla11 · 25/06/2016 22:02

There has been a lot of ill-informed, generalising and just downright nasty lies and comments in the past couple of days, from BOTH sides.

I'd like to offer what I consider is a more accurate set of reasons and beliefs as to why people voted leave, as I did.

All the leave voters are racist or xenophobic and only voted because of immigration

Simply not true, you only have to look at the numbers involved.

17 million people voted leave, lets say all UKIP voters are racist (I don't know if they are as I am not a UKIP voter but for arguments sake) and all of them voted leave because of immigration (5 million max). Now lets say the odious Farage, Johnson and Gove persuaded another 3 million people to vote solely on immigration, who may or may not have had legitimate concerns about it, that is 8 million, which I think is generous to say the least. Were they all racist or xenophobic? I doubt it!

All leave voters are thick, poorly educated or even uneducated who didn't understand

and

All young people voted remain and all old people voted leave and shafted their children and grandchildren

A few people who voted remain have pointed to a few surveys that have been done to find out who voted what way and what their backgrounds are. These surveys seemed to show that the younger people voted remain and the oap's voted leave. They also seemed to show that a higher proportion of people who voted remain have degrees (and higher) and so they must be more intelligent.

Whilst I don't doubt this could well be the case, I'd also point out the surveys were of less than 20,000 people, out of the more than 33 million people that voted, such a small survey size, even if you add all the surveys together is still far too small to be called statistically valid.
There is also the fact that people with a degree (or higher) are not automatically more intelligent, there are many degrees that would have no impact at all on how intelligent someone is when faced with a political decision. It's also naive and quite frankly insulting to suggest people who haven't been to University are less intelligent, it's another generalisation.

Leave voters thought there will now be zero immigration from the EU and are shocked to hear it won't be the case

Again simply not true. Most leave voters, (especially the ones who didn't vote to do with immigration) know fine well there will still be immigration from both EU and None-EU countries, they simply wanted the ability to choose the right people, from all countries that will bring an immediate benefit to the UK.

I don't doubt that some of the racist or xenophobic leave voters actually thought this would be the case, but they are in the minority, not the majority. Don't judge your opinions from forums, comments sections, radio and tv interviews because they don't add up to 17 million.

All leave voters hate immigrants

Nope and I would say it's only the minority that do, or may do. Neither do the majority want or expect the EU immigrants already here to leave, we just simply don't them to. However what some of the remain voters don't understand is that immigration in some areas of the UK does provide problems, espcially in the poorest parts of the country. Not all immigrants work and nor do all british people, put if you have a part of the country where unemployment is high, wages are low and housing is poor and then you move the poorest of the immigrants in to the same area then you are going to have tension, especially if some of the immigrants don't try to integrate. But if you also factor in that some of those poorer british residents are racist then who do you think they are going to target their fury at?

Immigration doesn't bother me, here in Newcastle we aren't greatly affected. I know EU immigration has been more than positive to the UK economy and diversity. I also know they pay in far, far more than they take out (there are much more british people who leech of the state compared to EU people) and provide vital roles in the NHS and care systems and much more. The issue isn't with where the immigrants come from it's with where they are going to live and the additional service needs it brings. It is a fact that there is not enough houses being built each year to cope with the current UK population growth rate, so when you add over 300,000 extra immigrants then we really, really do need more houses, more schools, more Doctors etc.

Personally I think a hold on immigration (still welcome refugees and asylum seekers) until those houses and schools are built isn't an unreasonable thing to consider. Or you bring in immigrants to build the houses and schools.

Leave voters are little Englanders who don't care about the UK or Europe

Again not true, in fact I think the lack of concern the UK has showed to Greece, Spain, Portugal and other struggling EU countries has been very disappointing and that includes remain voters. Those problems can't be fixed by the EU, it's broken. Look in to Jean-Claude Junker's history and interviews with him (before the referendum) and how the EU Commission vote, how much they spend on travel and accommodation and needless spending. The EU is corrupt and it serves the interests of only a few, not the majority.

The EU will fall apart in the next 2-3 years. But actually I'd like the UK to look towards forming something knew in Europe, that really helps all EU countries and agrees on trade deals (both in and out of the EU), immigration (perhaps each country has a ever reviewed limit relative to it's size etc) and legislation. The current EU does not have that in an open, fair and accountable way.

Have a read of these articles
www.theguardian.com/politics/commentisfree/2016/jun/24/divided-britain-brexit-money-class-inequality-westminster

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/25/london-separate-city-state-leave-voters-class

And finally a video from Digby Jones (starts at 44 secs) is he a 'thick' leaver?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQUZ5YOP6Ss

OP posts:
Alisvolatpropiis · 26/06/2016 01:36

No, it isn't.

Asprilla11 · 26/06/2016 01:37

So you believe that not a single remain voter is racist who voted to remain for other reasons?

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noblegiraffe · 26/06/2016 01:38

Here's what I think about leave voters: they don't have a fucking clue what's going to happen next, now that they have won the vote.

Is that a misconception?

Alisvolatpropiis · 26/06/2016 01:38

Why are so upset anyway? You got what you asked for, does it matter what the minority voters think of you?

Some people are never happy.

BillSykesDog · 26/06/2016 01:39

Not all Brexit voters are racist and stupid. All the racist stupid people did vote Brexit

A lot of them were Labour voters. So I assume you will have rules out voting for Labour again on the grounds that voting for the same side as someone who might be racist (regardless of the rest of the issues surrounding the vote) is wrong?

Alisvolatpropiis · 26/06/2016 01:40

I think it unlikely op given the Leave vote used Farage as a mouthpiece, along with the more reasonable face of Johnson.

Out2pasture · 26/06/2016 01:41

can someone tell me how the statisticians have come up with the data of who voted which way?
the pollsters got the general election wrong and this referendum wrong just wondering if all the hate and vitriol is being based on lousy data?

Asprilla11 · 26/06/2016 01:42

Here's what I think about leave voters: they don't have a fucking clue what's going to happen next, now that they have won the vote.

Is that a misconception?

The government need to elect a new PM, the new PM needs to discuss leaving the EU with the cabinet and parliament. Article 50 then needs to be activated and negotiations with the EU begin on how best the UK leaves the EU, these talks will take a minimum of 2 years.

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BessieBraddocksEgg · 26/06/2016 01:44

Both options on the ballot were unknowable longer term.

The vote in the 70s was to go into an economic common market. That has been transformed in the intervening years. Tbh we, the citizens of each country, maybe ought to have had a vote on the Maastricht treaty. Why does the EU project itself get absolved from this blame game?

Alisvolatpropiis · 26/06/2016 01:44

Not at all Bill, I think Labour forgot who their supporters are. Corbyn speaks very well to the left but not to the working classes who they are meant to represent. In attempting to run with the big Tory boys, Labour alienated a huge number of their core demographic.

But said core demographic is as capable of doing their own research as anyone else. And they failed to. The Welsh vote was shocking. Can't wait to see what sort of shit hole my home nation turns into under an uncontrolled Tory govn. Incidentally I didn't vote for them either.

BessieBraddocksEgg · 26/06/2016 01:45

And maybe older voters remember this!

Asprilla11 · 26/06/2016 01:45

So you believe that not a single remain voter is racist who voted to remain for other reasons?

I think it unlikely op given the Leave vote used Farage as a mouthpiece, along with the more reasonable face of Johnson

So out of 16 million people not a single one was racist, you really believe that? Really?

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Alisvolatpropiis · 26/06/2016 01:47

Ask the average person on the street why the voted out and "immigration" will be the first thing they say.

What racist reason is there to vote Remain, I'm interested. Tell me.

Asprilla11 · 26/06/2016 01:53

Ask the average person on the street why the voted out and "immigration" will be the first thing they say.

Will 17 million people say that and will the average man asked be in every town and city of the UK?

What racist reason is there to vote Remain, I'm interested. Tell me.

I never said there was a reason. I said that there will be some people that voted remain who are racist, it's simple mathematics out of 16 million people. They voted remain for issues other than immigration, but it doesn'r mean they are any less racist. Your statement that all racists voted to leave is simply untrue.

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noblegiraffe · 26/06/2016 01:57

Article 50 then needs to be activated and negotiations with the EU begin on how best the UK leaves the EU, these talks will take a minimum of 2 years.

Maximum of 2 years. Hmm

So you don't know how best to leave the EU, what leaving the EU will mean, just that we will have left?

Alisvolatpropiis · 26/06/2016 01:58

There is no racist reason to have voted Remain. Stop being so utterly ridiculous.

Do you understand that average does not every or do I need flash cards?

Why are you so touchy anyway? So people might think you're maybe a racist thicko, it's only a minority who might think that. You voted and the result you voted for came to be. Why so touchy?

noblegiraffe · 26/06/2016 02:02

There might be some racist Remainers but they didn't vote remain for racist reasons, rather despite being racist, while there are certainly plenty of Leave voters who voted Leave for racist reasons.

Asprilla11 · 26/06/2016 02:03

Alisvolatpropiis You really are stupid aren't you, read what I said, then read it again, at no point did I say there was a racist reason to vote remain. Look at the words I said!

Not touchy or racist at all thanks Grin when someone says something it is polite to reply, if you don't agree with what someone says then it is not being touchy.

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BillSykesDog · 26/06/2016 02:03

Corbyn speaks very well to the left but not to the working classes who they are meant to represent.

I disagree with this. Corbyn's half hearted stand for the EU actually put him far, far closer to alienated core Labour voters than the rest of the Labour Party. He's been very critical of the EU, its treatment of Greece and refused to tell poor voters that they would be financially better off in the EU. His views are a hell of a lot closer to the Labour core vote in places like Doncaster, Wakefield, Sunderland and Hull than the likes of David Lammy.

That's why the Labour Party is now so desperate to get rid of him. They're frightened he might actually start listening to these people, taking their concerns seriously and actually doing something about it - including possibly allowing a free vote on Brexit.

That terrifies the rest of Labour. They just want to hunker down with their London supporters shouting slogans and hissing about racists and thick northerners and go back to pretending the rest of the country doesn't exist or matter.

Alisvolatpropiis · 26/06/2016 02:03

Yes, exactly that noble.

Asprilla11 · 26/06/2016 02:04

There might be some racist Remainers but they didn't vote remain for racist reasons, rather despite being racist, while there are certainly plenty of Leave voters who voted Leave for racist reasons.

So that makes them a better class of racist then does it? Grin

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Alisvolatpropiis · 26/06/2016 02:05

You started a thread bitching about the misconceptions people had about Leave voters, that is more than a little touchy Grin

noblegiraffe · 26/06/2016 02:08

No, it makes Leave the racists' vote of choice.

Alisvolatpropiis · 26/06/2016 02:08

Do you think Bill? I've no idea where you live but your opinion doesn't reflect that of any Welsh person I know (I don't know them all, of course).

Asprilla11 · 26/06/2016 02:08

I disagree with this. Corbyn's half hearted stand for the EU actually put him far, far closer to alienated core Labour voters than the rest of the Labour Party. He's been very critical of the EU, its treatment of Greece and refused to tell poor voters that they would be financially better off in the EU. His views are a hell of a lot closer to the Labour core vote in places like Doncaster, Wakefield, Sunderland and Hull than the likes of David Lammy.

I quite agree, even though Newcastle voted remain there are many labour voters here that much prefer Corbyn's politics to the usual london obsessed leaders. Unfortunately I fear he is too nice to survive as leader.

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