brexiters this way. come and celebrate here

[Grassgreendashhabi]

I know there will be difficult times ahead.

Staying there was also going to be difficult times afraid.

But I think it's the way forward ! I'm pleased change is on the cards.

I'm not looking at anymore threads, it's all getting a bit silly now with the same insults being hurled over & over again.

We're out, that's all I care about. I'm happy.

"against their best interests' is again the sort of 'don't be silly, we know what's best for you - you couldn't possibly be trusted to make such an important choice'"
I didn't mean it like that. The article escribes it as sort of self harm. Knowing that it's damaging to you but doing it anyway.

The point that nailed it firmly in Leave for me was when David Cameron basically got pied by Juncker when he went to negotiate.
That's when it became very apparent that Brussels would never let us effect change 'from the inside' - they took the bully's position and wouldn't give an inch.

I'd like to address this, because I see it differently.
The other EU countries did not give Cameron all the concessions that he wanted in February, because they had their own interests to defend. Cameron had his list of red lines, they also had theirs, compromise was made to the maximum possible. That's what cooperation with others means: you don't get everything it is you want. You get some. You give and take.

It's not "bullying" to have a different position.

And these negotiations in February came on the heels of 43 years of special dispensations for the UK. The UK obtained from its EU partners, among other things:

• opt-out from common foreign and security policy
• opt-out from social policy
• a hefty budget rebate
• UK-led liberalisation of the Single Market

That's extraordinary!

So if the EU has reached its limit in concessions now, it has reached its limit. And if that's still not good enough for the UK, then indeed, this relationship is over.

But it's not "bullying". It's incompatibility.

We aren't out though, surfer. Are we?

Not officially no. But we're on the way.

Who are the leaders you trust, surferjet?

I know you didn't mean it Bertrand, I wasn't trying to be a knob honest.

I was just pointing out how the way things are phrased can be easily misconstrued - especially if you're already feeling inferior or angry.

Surfer, me too.

Bored of being shocked by posters who make a MN career of preaching tolerance, acceptance of differences and the need to embrace all regardless of beliefs now suddenly making horrible racist, ageist and bigoted claims because democracy won.

I've been to a wonderful lunch party at which all the adults had the grace, manners and sheer maturity to keep their opinions to themselves and help celebrate 90 years of a very wonderful old man.

I highly recommend the approach.

Thanks for the interesting debate, over and out.

But RiceCrispie, that's the crux of it.

We needed 27 other countries to agree to something that would be in our best interests.

The EU had become too big, unwieldy & disparate to function in a way that allowed us to do things in our best interests.

Thus, the partnership had indeed run its course.

Surfer: regarding your graphic on Switzerland 2 pages back.

It misses out that Switzerland also accepts EU migrants on the same terms as the rest of the EU and EEA. It has tried to put limits to that migration, and failed so far.

I don't know if migration influenced your vote to Leave, but if it did, then the Switzerland model is not a good one for you to uphold.

Yes, MangoMoon, we agree.

I don't see it as reasonable to be upset when 27 do not bow to the will of 1, and call it bullying, though.

I voted Leave. I did not decide to do so on a whim, it had very little if anything to do with Immigration, I spent the previous months reading everything I could find, both pro and anti.

I set out my reasons on many threads in the past and I have no intention of repeating them.

When virtually every other thread on here is Remain, I don't understand why you persist in coming on the solitary Leave thread to argue with us. It won't make us change our mind you know. I said upthread that I was not going to respond to Leavers, and here I am doing it again.

Ok Rorty, I respect your decision.

But how is it 'fair' to make such a huge decision based on such a small margin? Would it be the same if remain had won by ten votes, would that have been a mandate? Would Farage have left that one. Where is the cut off point.

And does it matter that your leaders LIED to the electorate, not just twisting facts but bare faced lies. Was it up to them to say - oops £350 million per week seems a large amount should I investigate it? Or do we now expect our politicians to lie so who cares?

If I had been caught cheating in an exam I would be thrown out of the exam, grade null and void and maybe not allowed to re-take.

Fair point re bullying Rice

Completely agree with your post Mooingcow - the hypocrisy on this site makes me sick. They're up the arses of anyone who isn't white working class, fucking wankers the lot of them.

Thank god for the white working classes, they've got our country back.

Over & Out too.
🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧

& 😘 To everyone on MN who voted leave. I love you.

Wow surfer you've come out of this discussing fantastically. Yeah fuck anyone who isn't white.

I live in a very white, very poor constituency. We overwhelmingly voted Remain.

Who said 'fuck anyone who isn't white'?

No one.

Fuck off with your selective 'acceptance & tolerance'.

You knew fine well what Surfer meant by her comment.

No need for the faux disingenuous outrage.

As I said further upthread, had the vote gone to Remain I would have felt sad but I, and I think most Leavers, would have accepted the majority vote. It appears the Remainers are unable to do the same.

Had it been reversed, I honestly can't imagine we would be having these countless doom and gloom threads and calls for another referendum and endless petitions. Maybe I'm wrong.

I am a Conservative voter but am really massively disappointed in the Government for a number of reasons. I think Cameron made a huge mistake by aligning himself to one side. He should have reported on his talks with the EU and then stood back. If he had done that, he would still be PM. I'm not impressed by Johnson or Gove since the result either and George Osborne appears to have disappeared off the face of the earth. What a bloody mess.

Mango clearly I actually don't understand what was meant by that comment.

For the last 2 days all leave voters have been called various slurs and there have been numerous snarky 'white working class racists have voted for this, xenophobic bastards that they are'.

She said "well thank god for the white working classes, they've got our country back"
in direct response to the bullshit nasty crap that she, me & others have had levelled at us incessantly.

Not looking great for Labour either is it www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36632956

No point explaining Mango they believe what they want to believe.

You're right Rorty.

Ironically, several remain voters have started to come round and are beginning to understand why people voted to leave.

Sadly it appears that certain plastic socialists do not.