brexiters this way. come and celebrate here

[Grassgreendashhabi]

I know there will be difficult times ahead.

Staying there was also going to be difficult times afraid.

But I think it's the way forward ! I'm pleased change is on the cards.

The Swiss image isn't being honest. Although they are an extremely wealthy country they do abide by many EU regulations and rules in order to trade with them including immigration rules. So if and when the U.K. Negotiatie their own deal there is no reason it couldn't be similar but it won't really be what you voted for. It will be getting there that's the hard part. It will involve disentangling from 40 years of membership, a lot of economic pain and uncertainty. Things will only get worse before they get better.

The fact is all countries are subject to treaties and deals because we are all dependent on each other. If you want complete sovereignty - maybe look to the model of North Korea - the food shortages and large prison camps are a small price to pay for not having any pesty human rights agreements. They have zero immigrants too.

"In fact, it's my ability to look outward rather than inward and to have the imagination to look beyond fear and rhetoric that spurred me to envisage a better future outwith the EU."

Shame you can't describe what it will be like, though, isn't it?

Mind you, if my Sherlock Holmes skills are working properly and you're Scottish, then it's a bit of a different ball game for you.......

http://www.perc.org.uk/project_posts/thoughts-on-the-sociology-of-brexit/

Namechanger, this is quite a good piece, it was posted by another poster on the Wakes thread.

It explains why facts lost out to ideals, and why the working classes may have been inclined to vote Leave in great numbers.

I'm not Scottish, and I'm not in a position whereby I can answer your question as to the future as, like Surfer, I was not bundled off to negotiate the exit strategy.

Sorry- you used a particular word that I always think of as Scottish.

But surely you must have had some idea what was going to happen and what it would be like? Surely? Just generally?

Surfer your fact soundbite misses the bit where Switzerland pays huge amounts of money into the EU in order to get those benefits, without any say over any of the rules to which it had to adhere to be part of the single market.

Was it outwith?!

I have to confess I spent a good few years up there but I'm in Oxfordshire now (and for the next 10 yrs probably).

I do have an idea of what I would like to see, yes - and I do think we can achieve it, but it is still a leap of faith nonetheless.

Personally, it was all about detaching from Brussels politically.
The point that nailed it firmly in Leave for me was when David Cameron basically got pied by Juncker when he went to negotiate.
That's when it became very apparent that Brussels would never let us effect change 'from the inside' - they took the bully's position and wouldn't give an inch.

But your always going to have to negotiate with Brussels and now you won't have a voice in their at all?? It wasn't a vote on whether the EU should exist anymore. It is there and the U.K. Will need to do deals with it to survive.

Yes it's a leap of faith indeed. I can only think that 52% of the British felt like they had nothing to lose.

I'm interested to know whether or not other Leavers think that had Remain won, we would all be on here crying, whinging, moaning, insulting the Leavers, calling them ridiculous names, threatening to leave the country, starting pathetic petitions, not talking to their parents who voted Leave ad infinitum ad nauseum?

I think not. I think the majority of us would have been disappointed but accepted the outcome. Why can't Remainers do the same?

Rorty I've exceeded the picture allowance today so I can't post a screenshot but I think if remain had won there would have been actual riots in the street.

Some comments from the screenshot I have from my Facebook, this was on Thursday before the result. I campaigned for Remain so I spoke to a lot on both sides:

'If I'm walking down the street and see some one in need of help, I will ask them 'did you vote in or out?' If they say in I'll keep walking'

'I will be zero tolerance for remainers, they will be locked off and fucked off forever'

Now this www.facebook.com/groups/610588862443201/permalink/610635749105179/

It's impossible to say. But it's entirely plausible that there would have been the same fallout. Nigel Farage said he wouldn't accept a 48/52 win for remain and would push for a second referendum.

"I think not. I think the majority of us would have been disappointed but accepted the outcome. Why can't Remainers do the same?"

Well. For a start, the Petition was actually started about a month ago by a Leaver anticipating defeat. And Farage is on record as saying he would have regarded a 52:48 vote in favour of remain as "unfinished business". So I think you might be being a bit naive about the Leavers level of peaceful acceptance.

And to carry on, if Remain had won nothing would have changed. The status quo would have been maintained There would have been fewer, if any, unintended consequences. And the Leavers would have been left to fight another day. As opposed to an irrecovable decision and an unknown future. Which is what the Leavers have landed us with! So that might be why Remain are finding it hard to shrug and carry on. Because we can't carry on. The thing we would have carried on with has been destroyed. By 38% of the electorate, some of whom seem to have not understood what they were voting for.

There you go again - assuming we have not understood what we voted for. It does Remainers no favours to make such remarks.

Gunting that's disturbing and I would in no way agree with those sentiments.

We are not crying, whinging etc... I am really trying to understand statements like 'it is time for a change'.

Yes it is time for a change but the changes that need to be made are at home in the bankers swindle that bankrupted this country and continue to do so. Nothing to do with the EU.

Destroying the city of London will make us all poorer, they pay a lot of tax!

Rorty because the implications of leaving are far riskier, more drastic and potentially greater than staying.

Hi Rorty

What did you vote for?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36634407

What a surprise, dirty tricks by those super honest remain voters!

"There you go again - assuming we have not understood what we voted for. It does Remainers no favours to make such remarks"

I said "some of whom". Or do you think that the man, for example, who voted leave to keep out the Muslims understood what he was voting for?

Rorty - as you brought it up, please can you tell us what you did vote for? And something beyond "taking back control"? I genuinely want to hear what the leavers feel they have gained/stand to gain? I can't seem to find this answer anywhere at all

PassTheCremeEggs, I posted a link at 12:56 today which gives insight to why the vast swathes of disenfranchised working classes voted to leave.

It really is worth a read.

That's a fascinating article. However, it does rather reinforce the much challenged point that many/some Leavers didn't know what they were voting for, or did, and voted perversely against their own best interests................

Asprilla have I missed something from that article? Where is the fraud?

I think it explains that part of the leave vote Bertrand, yes; but there was also an equally large amount of leave voters who did it for the other, more informed reasons.

They don't have 'the answer' for the future, but they have a vision of what could be and were prepared to make the leap.

The two types combined could easily make up the whole, iyswim.

gunting, the fraud is (I think) people signing multiple times under assumed or made up identities.

I think as well, even the words you just used:

'against their best interests' is again the sort of 'don't be silly, we know what's best for you - you couldn't possibly be trusted to make such an important choice'.

(I mean that not in a snarky way, I promise).