Why are all the twats voting leave?

[HeckyWithTheGoodBear]

Me being one of them probably

I can't find the list I saw earlier, but it's been playing on my mind all day.

It was a list of remain supporters - there was the Bank of England, the IMF, 99% of economists and big businesses, all the non racist newspapers, Steven Hawking, all unions, most councils, Obama etc etc

And a list of brexit supporters. Boris Johnson, Michael Gove, the leader of ISIS, Vicky Pattison out of Geordie Shore

I'm sure I want to leave. I've started, read and engaged in very interesting debates on MN and elsewhere that have led me to this decision. I'm not saying it's clear cut, but I certainly don't think it's an obviously foolish vote to make. So why are the majority of influential and intelligent people voting remain, and the twats of the world voting leave?

Maybe it's just pre match nerves. But I can't help but thinking if all these geniuses reckon remain is the way to go, I've probably got it wrong.

Thoughts?

I thought only non British EU residents getting a vote were the Irish. How are your polish friends voting out?

Because they hold British passports. They have been here for 9 years.

petit accuse me of racism again and I will report you. Foul

Their ambitious young people cleaning our office toilets. Somehow this is good.

Surely they're best placed to judge which is the better option for them?

Fair enough to have concerns for British lower-paid workers (although the EU is not the source of their problems, globalisation and neo-liberal policies are), but I don't think most Eastern Europeans would be very impressed if you justify a Leave choice by saying it's "for their own good".

Rooner: noy dared mention that on here, as I know the consternation it will cause.

But yes, same here. The Polish I know and the ones my DC are working with on summer jobs are saying vote out. One Polish friend gets very angry with a mutual friend that's still undecided. She has been here since 2004 and is vehment that UK should vote out.

Assumed not worth mentioning before - as MN now seems to be a place for shorthand stereotypes on anything where politics is concerned.

Interestingly, Poland has minus figures on net immigration per 1000.

-0.47 per 1000 Poland
+2.56 per 1000 UK

Interesting interactive statistics thingy attached:

www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?v=27&c=pl&l=en

Not sure how it helps Poland to have their brightest here and our country's lowest paid competing with them in the work place.

I'm not and that isn't why I have voted Out.

But I feel uncomfortable about it. I believe many are far more qualified than my colleagues.

My Polish friend has a series of low paid jobs. Her kids are very much British and she is here for the long term.

But don't expect us all to think that low paid Eastern European workers is just wonderful

Report me for what? Have i hit a nerve?You're being really silly now aren't you? You wouldn't have an NHS if it wasn't for Immigrants. Do a bit more reading up and educate yourself.
Off to work now. I'll be mixing with people from all the world in my workplace.
I'm sure that makes some of you shudder on here

Petit how about you take a look in the mirror and think before you post.

Some Remainers on this thread are finally begining to show themselves in their true light. Vile.

I'm baffled - where has petit called anyone racist?

isn't it patronising to assume that those who are immigrants will automatically vote to remain, that they themselves don't have an opinion on immigration

those that have now become citizens they share the same concerns as those who were born here as they voting for the future of their home and what they feel is best for their families and the country

Off to work now. I'll be mixing with people from all the world in my workplace.

Some of who if eligible to vote may be voting leave. You will actually never know.

Maybe think about that.

news.liverpool.ac.uk/2016/06/22/transcript-professor-michael-dougan-eu-referendum/
A very helpful link if you're undecided op

I've said this all along. There are some very real reasons to leave that do not involve immigration or any racial/ethnic/etc stereotyping. Not all brexit supporters are racist but no racists are backing remain. The problem is that the leave campaign has steadfastly refused to pull away from the likes of Farage which has meant those reasons are lost in the mire of bullshit. Sadly it's this that's pushed me to definitely vote remain.

Richy here for starters

It's just that the leavers don't want certain people here but they dry to dress it up any which way

petit you know what you said.

Maybe look around at those people from all over the world. They might just hold a different view to you.

You are an example of how awful this referendum has become. Small minded, petty and resorting to accusations of racism because you are not clever enough to oppose different views to yours.

Nope.

Rooner, well said!

Not all brexit supporters are racist but no racists are backing remain.

100% sure of that? This is where it gets silly. Unless you know everyone who is voting means sweeping statements are very naive.

I completely dislike Farage but if you think that if remain win he will go away then you are very mistaken.

Not quite how I think society should be aspiring to be though - really; do you?

Would you like your education to go to waste because it was financially more lucrative to leave your family and clean toilets abroad. You probably would if you have the option. If you don't have the option then you'd probably stay and use your education and improve your own community.

This is your global community to aspire to - qualified engineers peeling spuds and the boy with a handful of GCSEs unable to compete for work with him.

Seems like an eminently happy society for all, and clearly one you wish on all our children, and here we are - you have your society in front of you. I'd say for those at the bottom it is a mess.

Some lower qualified people are only ever going to be suitable for menial type of jobs. They should not have to compete with a never ending supply of new labour. Excllent for the the employer but not the employees. In your view it is the other way round.

Maybe also people need to stop looking at things through their own blinkers.

I openly admits that good and bad people will vote leave.

I wonder how many of those in remain would admit the same for Remainers.

you have an have an opinion, it doesn't make it equally valid - small

Yet again this is the type of nob head, greater than though comment I can't stand.

Everyones opinion is valid - not just yours. Jesus ! Some folk need to get past there own ego.

But immigration doesn't increase unemployment in the native population, your making a lump of labour fallacy.

little I doubt Farage will go away sadly but the vast difference between the last election and this referendum has been the distancing or not of him and his views. It's turned this into something it never should have been. Or something that could have been managed better. The voice of those who believe in leave for non immigration or racist reasons is getting drowned out.

those that have now become citizens they share the same concerns as those who were born here as they voting for the future of their home and what they feel is best for their families and the country

^^ this with bells on!! There was a polish lady on sky news yesterday morning. Been here since 2004. Had two children here, worked full time and was now a citizen. She was voting out

Leave we're not talking about an ideal world, we're talking about the real world where people only have limited options.

Immigrants clearly believe that the better option for them is to come work in the UK, and I suspect (I could be wrong) that they'd find it highly patronising to be told that actually, they're wrong, they don't understand things properly because they're only thinking in short-term financial terms, if they really thought things through they'd be better off staying at home.

Your concern is for British workers, and that's absolutely fair. But don't try and argue that you want to limit immigration for the sake of the immigrants, that just doesn't hold up.

small fox : think we've had your blimmin "proof" on this issue previously - I'll say the same again:

The "in" joke for economists is:
Statistics are used as a drunk uses a lamp post: for support - not illumination.

Statistics have been played with throughout this debate on the remain side - See above quote for how economists actually understand they can spin them any which way they choose.

Entirely dependent upon the selection of information put into the modelling - you get the end result you wish to spin.

But yes, I expect someone else will be "impressed" or "scared" by your statistics. See Cameron's campaign for further details.