Why are all the twats voting leave?

[HeckyWithTheGoodBear]

Me being one of them probably

I can't find the list I saw earlier, but it's been playing on my mind all day.

It was a list of remain supporters - there was the Bank of England, the IMF, 99% of economists and big businesses, all the non racist newspapers, Steven Hawking, all unions, most councils, Obama etc etc

And a list of brexit supporters. Boris Johnson, Michael Gove, the leader of ISIS, Vicky Pattison out of Geordie Shore

I'm sure I want to leave. I've started, read and engaged in very interesting debates on MN and elsewhere that have led me to this decision. I'm not saying it's clear cut, but I certainly don't think it's an obviously foolish vote to make. So why are the majority of influential and intelligent people voting remain, and the twats of the world voting leave?

Maybe it's just pre match nerves. But I can't help but thinking if all these geniuses reckon remain is the way to go, I've probably got it wrong.

Thoughts?

[howtorebuild]

We will be the USE in 20 years.

[EnthusiasmDisturbed]

And I think if David Attenborough wanted to be influential in people's votes he would have made a public statement before polling day

As for David Beckham we all know that statement didn't come from him but his pr so pointless despite how much publicity it got which fuels his own ego

[smallfox1980]

Compliant people and rich puppeteers?

Would that be the owners of the Daily Mail, Telegraph, Sun and Express then? How about James Dyson or the chair of JCB? The Eton and Oxford educated former Mayor of London who described £250,000 a year as "chicken feed"?

Ah the irony.

[BitOutOfPractice]

James Dyson, the man who supports Britain so much that he moved the entire manufacturing facility to Malaysia in 2002, lying as he did so about the reasons, in order to try and retain his "Great Briton" credentials. Yeah, him

[MangoMoon]

Anecdotally, the more educated people I know are voting remain

Me too. The anti-intellectualism of the Leave campaign turns my stomach.

Not just twats voting to leave!

Twats on both sides....

[WaspsandBeesSting]

Anecdotally, the more educated people I know are voting remain

Anacedotally the ones I know are voting leave

The anti-intellectualism of the Leave campaign turns my stomach.

It would seem that the masks of some Remain voters are slipping and true colours are starting to shine through.

[Millyonthefloss2]

Frank Field or Bob Geldof, you decide

Or these two on the Victoria Derbyshire debate:

[Chalalala]

why is it a bad thing to dislike anti-intellectualism?

I really fear it, personally. Especially when it's the highly hypocritical and self-serving sort of anti-intellectualism coming from someone like Michael Gove.

[shovetheholly]

On my Facebook feed (small sample, not representative), everyone (and I mean everyone) who has a PhD is voting Remain. These are people in the top 10% wealth wise. Most people who have MAs and graduate degrees are also voting Remain (about an 80/20 split). These are also wealthy, but perhaps not quite as well off on balance. Both groups have posted what they consider to be evidence to support their choices, generally statistical data and heavily text-based articles. The PhDs have done this extensively, for days on end.

By contrast, those who are who are working class are overwhelmingly voting Leave. These are people on average or below-average incomes. They've spoken far less about the reasons why (the only reason I know many of them are voting this way is private conversations). Those who have posted material have relied mostly on 'common sense' argumentation, emotive appeal (e.g. love of one's country) and graphics, but these are very much a minority. There isn't the same sense of entitlement or confidence about public political debate here, but views are quite strong in private.

The difference between the two in terms what they consider valid 'evidence' and in terms of entitlement and confidence is striking. But it's also a socio-economic difference: those in the Leave group got hammered over the recession and are feeling distinctly downtrodden, whereas many of the PhDs have actually got wealthier for a variety of reasons.

[Chalalala]

shovetheholly this is also what my Facebook feed looks like.

The only difference is that most of my PhD friends are definitely not wealthy, most of them are early-career researchers going from fixed-term contract to fixed-term contract, being exploited for teaching with little time for research, and with little perspective of geographical or professional stability. The recession has been shit for them too.

[Limer]

It's no surprise that big business supports Remain. They want the unlimited supply of cheap EU labour.

And it's no surprise that those with PhDs support Remain. They either already are, or see their future, at the top of the tree wealth-wise, and therefore also benefiting from cheap EU labour.

[BitOutOfPractice]

shovetheholly I'm always intrigued to know how people know the financial position of their friends and acquaintances

My FB is almost exclusively (99%) remain

[shovetheholly]

chalalala - I know, it's bad for early career people . That said, it is relative. Most RA posts where I am pay upwards of £25k - some now in the £30k bracket - which is in a totally different league from the wages that my friends working in calls centres can earn. While short contracts are precarious, I'm not sure that in opportunity terms, life for early career researchers is quite the same kind of precarious as those who are facing a choice between shit jobs in shit conditions and few rights or welfare with all the strings that come attached. I'm absolutely not saying life is rosy for those who are on these short-term contracts, and I totally support the strikes on their behalf. But life is unbelievably shit at the bottom of the pile now.

[Chalalala]

that's fair shovetheholly

[RitchyBestingFace]

It would seem that the masks of some Remain voters are slipping and true colours are starting to shine through.

Wasps - what does that even mean? That I dislike wilful ignorance and anti-intellectualism is not my 'mask slipping'.

[shovetheholly]

bitout - it's fairly easy if you work it out by the deciles, because of fairly transparent pay/grade structures in the areas most of my friends are in! For those who are interested, here are the stats on percentile points for income distribution. You might be surprised.

www.gov.uk/government/statistics/percentile-points-from-1-to-99-for-total-income-before-and-after-tax

[merrymouse]

it's a fantasy to imagine that low skilled jobs are going to be better paid without eu immigrants. It's not as though people are particularly well paid in areas where immigration is low.

[shovetheholly]

Those in low paid, low skilled jobs will be first against the wall if we hit another recession. They were thrown to the dogs last time to protect the middle classes, and they will be again.

This referendum is a bit like watching turkeys vote for Christmas.

[merrymouse]

Equally, if there is a conspiracy by the 'elite' to allow immigration of low paid workers, there is no reason to believe that they would be thwarted by leaving the EU.

[Vrijeme]

In answer to the OP's question, here is the answer
David Cowling, the BBC’s head of political research, in an internal memo…

“It seems to me that the London bubble has to burst if there is to be any prospect of addressing the issues that have brought us to our current situation. There are many millions of people in the UK who do not enthuse about diversity and do not embrace metropolitan values yet do not consider themselves lesser human beings for all that. Until their values and opinions are acknowledged and respected, rather than ignored and despised, our present discord will persist. Because these discontents run very wide and very deep and the metropolitan political class, confronted by them, seems completely bewildered and at a loss about how to respond (“who are these ghastly people and where do they come from?” doesn’t really hack it). The 2016 EU referendum has witnessed the cashing in of some very bitter bankable grudges but I believe that, throughout this 2016 campaign, Europe has been the shadow not the substance.”

[SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace]

The answer to OP's question is contained within the question....

[Orwellschild]

I have no money. I rent privately, I work full time, am not a homeowner and have no savings due to astronomical rent however, I'm voting remain. It's not about "the moneyed", in fact, those with significant collateral would at least have a fall back should we see an economic crash following a Brexit. Those without obviously value being able to pay their bills, and rent, and if you work in a business which trades heavily with the EU (I do!) then the potential for job losses / rent increases is a big worry. It's not the rich / comfortably off that will necessarily suffer from a leave vote.

[Roonerspism]

I love how people are told sternly how "good" the EU is for them.

For those struggling, that must be hard to hear.

Question - for people struggling in high immigration areas, why are more funds not directed that way to alleviate the burden? And by burden I mean the effects on schools and healthcare? For there is an effect - of course there is.

I'm in Scotland where immigration isn't really a big deal - but I'm hugely sympathetic to the plight of people who are really struggling. People with money, on the whole, don't give a shit about those struggling

[Chalalala]

Question - for people struggling in high immigration areas, why are more funds not directed that way to alleviate the burden? And by burden I mean the effects on schools and healthcare? For there is an effect - of course there is.

This is a question I wish more people had asked. Labour started arguing along these lines towards the end of the campaign, but way too late, and their credibility on the question is not amazing anyway since the problems started under Labour.

It's also why Cameron is a crap advocate for Remain, he can't exactly say "it's not immigration that's the problem it's the unequal distribution of its benefits and downsides", since he's the one allocating the money.

[Littlemisslovesspiders]

Instead of calling people 'twats' how about reading this then you might actually find the truth as to why some people are voting the way they are.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/23/united-kingdom-two-nations-political-chasm-left