Why are all the twats voting leave?

[HeckyWithTheGoodBear]

Me being one of them probably

I can't find the list I saw earlier, but it's been playing on my mind all day.

It was a list of remain supporters - there was the Bank of England, the IMF, 99% of economists and big businesses, all the non racist newspapers, Steven Hawking, all unions, most councils, Obama etc etc

And a list of brexit supporters. Boris Johnson, Michael Gove, the leader of ISIS, Vicky Pattison out of Geordie Shore

I'm sure I want to leave. I've started, read and engaged in very interesting debates on MN and elsewhere that have led me to this decision. I'm not saying it's clear cut, but I certainly don't think it's an obviously foolish vote to make. So why are the majority of influential and intelligent people voting remain, and the twats of the world voting leave?

Maybe it's just pre match nerves. But I can't help but thinking if all these geniuses reckon remain is the way to go, I've probably got it wrong.

Thoughts?

How naive to think that those voting out have a problem with foreigners and are racist! Disgusting idiots.
It really does show the lack of intelligence of some in the remain camp.

Oh and Hodooooor the way you've just posted makes you look like the offensive one. I voted leave because I don't believe being governed by the EU is best for us. I welcome foreign nationals coming here, we NEED immigration, a vote to leave doesn't suddenly stop that happening or mean that people have to suddenly up and leave. But as you're clearly disinclined to even try and see the opposite view I probably shouldn't post this!

and something that no decent human being would want to be a part of.

Labelling everyone voting leave are you?

I could join you in the gutter but I'must better than that.

Farage's poster was disgusting.

Alan Sugars tweet was disgusting.

CarlGrimes, absolutely.

Whatever the outcome of the Referendum, we need to confront the fact that we have a deep divide of style, class, argument and substantive position and that can only be a corrosive thing.

On the one hand we have a working class that is being screwed over systematically in economic terms. Unfortunately (to my mind), they choose to understand what is happening to them not in policy, funding and tax terms but in terms of immigration. I am pretty sure they are making a category mistake in their analysis, but I can see why they are angry, and they have every right to feel pushed to one side.

On the other hand we have a middle class doing very well in economic terms that does also have a grip on the idea that the problem is not migration but government policy and the economic distribution of wealth by the state. They caricature the working class as simply thick for having the beliefs they do. Unfortunately, however, many are unwilling to confront the practical consequences of inequality or to do anything really practical about it. The result is a brazenly selfish right and a hypocritical soft left.

Both sides need to start hearing the other. More than anything, I would like us all to have a debate about the collective values we live by and the society we want for the future. I think it's only by confronting, with generosity, the fears and position of others that we can move forward.

I second this, shovetheholly. Spot on.

You can bleat all you like about your reasons to vote Leave, but we all know its because you want the forriners out and thats basically it.

It's a vote for racism, little england jingoism, for backward thinking and pie-eyed arseways nationalism.

How about you grow up.

Your statement is fucking ignorant aswell as stupid and a downright lie.

FFS. The judgemental remainers on here, are doing the cause no good at all. There is so much positive rhetoric as to why we should/must & will stay in but, to reduce yourself to calling people rascist when somebody challenges you, is pathetic. I'm almost embarrassed to be an "in" looking at some things that people are spouting.

TheNaze, yes it just goes to show, your voting ability, whether in or out, should be based on an IQ test!

I think the campaigns should have been fought in better issues than immigration and money. The broader complexities of the EU would be a start but they're not headline grabbing.

The Naze - aint that the truth

I was wondering how many times they say "racist" and is there a direct corellation to a feel good hormone zipping round their body?

Some of the least informed and most informed are on both sides of the debate.

Where I'd say the difference between the most informed on both sides - is that they understand that our Judicial system is subject to EU Judges and are either happy with this or not.

The least informed it boils down to half of MN - who've fallen for Cameron's spin to make it racist. (Labour party have a part to play in this too, as they abandoned their core voters and left them no voice other than through UKIP).

half of MN - who've fallen for Cameron's spin to make it racist.

let's be fair here, the anti-EU campaigns have a lot to answer for too.

Dh and I are voting in, my ENTIRE family are voting out. Dh works in the city, my family work in fish and ag.
I've already had three phone calls today telling me that the French will send the Calais camps over on ferries if we vote out and we will be able to send them back.....
My fb is full of people bitching about voting in pen......
I will be glad when 10pm comes!

Love how leave voters are now discussing remainers as being the last informed.

Don't make me laugh, the entire campaign of leave has been built on misuse of statistics and data, misquoting people and using post truth tactics.

You can have an opinion, it doesn't make it equally valid.

I completely agree with thenaze and shovetheholly. I disagree that leavers are all racist and stupid. I would never call anyone that based on their voting in this referendum unless they are - there are idiots on both sides.

smallfox - Just on my own Facebook wall (can't talk about how representative that is), I've noticed that the two camps actually use different kinds of evidence. It's not so much about being ill-informed or well-informed as that different epistemological rationales exist on both sides, and they don't speak to each other. It's like one side is arguing in apples, the other in oranges.

Not racism but a hell of alot of dog whistling, which is equally as insidious.

Don't make me laugh, the entire campaign of leave has been built on misuse of statistics and data, misquoting people and using post truth tactics.

You seriously think Remain have been completely truthful.

Politics is based on spin.

petit I'm friends with lots of Polish people. Most are voting out.

For all those thinking that non-racist Leave voters are poor and pissed off. I'm middle class and we are by no means wealthy, but we are coping.

Please stop this stereotyping.

People like you petit will encourage the rise of the far right because people will think they can't voice their concerns. As my Polish friend said "it's not about where people come from but the fact that a lot of the country is full"

Well yes holly: the middle classes now have, as Frank Field said - "an Edwardian serving class" at their disposal. Okay if you like to see people as renewable service items (always a new replacement model soon to arrive). Or could actually invest in the people at the bottom and train them on the job. Employers have no need to do this currently as they can treat people like rubbish at bottom.

Disclaimer: I know not all employers are like this, but unfortunately we've created a system where the Victorian factory worker style employer has contempt for staff and no sense of community.

I disagree, I think that a lot of people made their decisions and then sought information to back them up, I made my decision by looking at lots of different sources for information.

I've said it before but this campaign has been mainly about confirmation bias, and on here and in public I've only heard one side disagreeing with independent organisations findings or the judgement of experts in their field. We even had yesterday people dismissing the opinions of the VCs of Universities about the risks posed to them by brexit because VCs were just worried about losing their jollies.

It's probabaly importatnt to remeber that the government has always been very good at minipulating the public, so try and desensitise yourself from the politicians you engage with.

There is no garauntees in leaving the EU, it's quite reckless - what you have read are theories, not actual laws.

Please consider the fact that the Human Rights Act is a European law, and the only government funding for worthwhile casues is European (there is a very small proportion from the UK, but these has consistently been cut and sliced since the recession). Without funding these causes, they cease to exist or we pay in tax - you can't have it both ways.

Reactions to Brexit polls also show that the effect on the pound would be detrimental - people would be investing in a high risk.

I don't trust any UK political party, and certainly do not no anyone who does - we put up becauase there is no other option. If the Brexit did go ahead, there would be no human rights, no union and to be quite frank, the British populace could well become sitting ducks.

Without a garaunteed contigency plan for 'what if...' I cannot see the benefit in voting out - and I sincerely hope this is not the direction Britain is heading in.

In my office, all the low paid jobs - cleaning, preparing food etc - are by workers from Eastern Europe.

Those of us on reasonable salaries have a well run office

I often wonder what a waste of these minds of the Eastern Europeans it is. The brain drain from their country. Their ambitious young people cleaning our office toilets. Somehow this is good.

I'm struggling to see it.

Cheap labour may be good for our economy but it isn't always good for people.

I have lots of friends who are Eastern European. All are voting to Remain, and all but one has experienced downright racist abuse particularly in the last two weeks. i'm glad you find that OK.. . Oh and you're friend and you are plain wrong. The country is not anywhere near full. It's just that the leavers don't want certain people here but they dry to dress it up any which way..