Can anyone explain why the government and others are so desperate for us to stay?

[TwentyOneGuns]

I'm the first to admit that my knowledge of politics and economics is not great but it seems to me there must be more to it than we are being told. If they are getting so scared of a Leave vote that they have to threaten us with Emergency budgets etc what are they really worrying about? I just can't believe they have only the interests of the country at heart. What do they get out of it if we vote Remain?

Well that looks a bit weak. Pro Leave for so long then suddenly not just because of the £360m . I can see why its considered she's a plant.

Oh yes, how silly to change your mind because it turns out the main claim of the campaign was a lie.

I'm back. Pushing the mower was hard graft, a coffee break was required.

'So you trust brain surgeons. How about Dr Sarah Wollaston'

Don't trust her one iota. Said she switched due to the false figure of £350 million on the bus and because her 81 year old dad wanted her to change her mind because he believes the EU had brought peace.

She couldn't have given the issue much thought if those were her reasons and she didn't worry about the democratic deficit, the laws made in Brussels, the unaccountability, the secret TTIP negotiations which may impact the NHS and the scaremongering from Cameron and Osborne over pensioners and the adverts of the empty purse intended to frighten pensioners.

I might trust Sarah as a GP, but I don't trust her political judgements.

Not the main part of the campaign for me.

Sarah Woollaston (ironically given that she is MP for the UK's crystal therapy and dream catcher capital) is someone who has advocated for science and evidence based policy. It's perfectly in character for her to change her mind based on new information.

Surely that is the point of political campaigns - so voters base their decisions on the facts?

Oh, so it's ok to lie then? And paint it in massive figures all over buses and leaflets?

Must remember that next time I run a political campaign.

(Sorry Ritchy that wasn't aimed at you!)

its irrelevant if I understand or not the point is why vote to uphold something you have no knowledge about and be critical of those that are choosing to leave

'Oh, so it's ok to lie then? And paint it in massive figures all over buses and leaflets? '

I think it is just part of political campaigning. The Remain campaign fell for the trap. They kept challenging the figure which put it in the news and reminded people we pay the EU a lot of money per week. People don't believe the figure to the last penny, but they do care that it is a lot.

There's lieing on both sides, that isnt the perogative of the leave campaign.

Sadly our politics is full of empty promises and a play on words the voter knows that it's a sad state of affairs

What the £350 figure did do is open up discussion. We were rightfully told that is not the amount but it's confusing as to what is and the numbers given out are still huge amounts. The argument is lost both sides but the confusion is still there that I think that was the point

Now we have the French minister Macron, they hyped up slick young Grand Ecole graduate telling us that "Britain would be as significant as Guernsey" if we leave the EU.

The EU class is desperate

'The argument is lost both sides but the confusion is still there that I think that was the point'

It was a win for Leave because it made news and the more Remain challenged the figure, the more the people were informed that it was a lot of money. It kept it in their minds which is why no one apart from Cameron cared that Sarah Woolaston used it as a reason to switch from her long deliberated and considered opinion to back Leave.

'Brexit 'would make Britain as insignificant as Guernsey''

Leaving the EU would make Britain as insignificant as the island of Guernsey, France's economy minister Emmanuel Macron has said.

In an interview with Le Monde, Mr Macron said: "Leaving the EU would mean the 'Guernseyfication' of the UK, which would then be a little country on the world scale. It would isolate itself and become a trading post and arbitration place at Europe's border."

www.itv.com/news/update/2016-06-18/brexit-would-make-uk-as-insignificant-as-guernsey/

Macron is the young whizzkid tthe bankers, media and international movers and shakers at Davos hype up for the public.

Just googled Macron because the bankers always hype him up for us. Turns out he was an investment banker. Plus ca change ...

Macron is another "expert". Sacre Macron, the bankers are having a laugh.

I meant the £350 figure was lost so they can't put that amount back into the NHS (I don't actually think they said that it was more along the lines it could be, well of course it can't because that figure is wrong) but as I think it was a red herring the remain played straight into it

I prefer politics to be more straightforward it has Boris all over it

The country is meant to be doing very well economically. We are doing wonderfully. And yet people are on zero hour contracts, not enough housing, sky high property prices in the south, shortage of school places. Maybe we are doing well but it's not filtering down. I'm voting out. I did waver a bit a few weeks ago but I've decided now. Maybe a good outcome would be an out vote, the end of the Conservative government and a general election. Rather than more of the same we've been having over the last ten years.

I still dont get why claig etc keep going about 'class' etc for gods sake leave is chock full of the same people.

Has Priti Patel, Gove and Boris got the person on the streets back?! seriously 100%?

These people are in these positions regardless of in or out.

If you want a different system, lets get proportional representation and stop voting for Nu-labour and Conservatives in the general elections, lot more simpler.

Most of these problems that Leave people keep attributing to Euro can be sorted out by our own government.

If we have proportional representation we have UKIP with a large number of mp's

I am for and against it

Can I ask your opinion Claig --- why haven't the Leave campaign made more of a noise about the ludicrous immigration figures?

As I understand it from R4 this morning our immigration figures are based on people (civil servants?) going about with clipboards on international transport asking every 10th person or so whether they are coming or going. Surely, surely, I misunderstood???

In reality, over 600,000 people from the EU registered for national insurance numbers in the last year alone.

Why aren't they getting this across?

The British Government could legislate to outlaw zero hour contracts tomorrow, if it chose to. It's nothing to do with the EU.

justbogoff

And yet david icke wa sright about saville.

'I still dont get why claig etc keep going about 'class' '

I am not on about class. Boris is a toff. It is not class, it is money that controls people, bankers who influence them. Macron is another former banker.

This referendum is about independence, independence from the EU, and from its hidden banker domination, personified by the fomer bankers and media hyped up whizzkids like Macron who tries to scare the people that

"Leaving the EU would mean the 'Guernseyfication' of the UK"

This referendum is about democracy, where the people choose their own lawmakers that they are able to unelect them.

I am all for PR voting and even though the bankers and the political class do not want to give it to us becuse it will mean that they will lose power, I think that after this referendum PR will become inevitable over time becuse it is now clear that the people do not trust the "experts" or the political class.

Maybe because your 600,000 figure is another lie?

fullfact.org/immigration/eu-immigration-uk-whats-hidden-national-insurance-number-data/