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Brexit

Can anyone explain why the government and others are so desperate for us to stay?

273 replies

TwentyOneGuns · 15/06/2016 20:18

I'm the first to admit that my knowledge of politics and economics is not great but it seems to me there must be more to it than we are being told. If they are getting so scared of a Leave vote that they have to threaten us with Emergency budgets etc what are they really worrying about? I just can't believe they have only the interests of the country at heart. What do they get out of it if we vote Remain?

OP posts:
EnthusiasmDisturbed · 18/06/2016 23:46

I am a labour voter and I think much of what Blair did was good but I gave up being a member of the party then

I am surprised Remain had him campaigning you won't see him this week

Well I doubt it but as it seems to be run by people who are misjudging the public all the time we might well do

RitchyBestingFace · 18/06/2016 23:48

Everyone knew it was questionable at the time. It wasn't a sleight of hand. BoJo and IDS backed the war for ideological reasons and would not have made a different decision even with the full facts.

People need to stop pretending Blair acted alone on Iraq - he did it with parliamentary support, largely from the opposition.

EnthusiasmDisturbed · 18/06/2016 23:52

they might have thought it was questionable but that is not the point he knew it was or so it seems

Of course he didn't act alone but it was a Labour PM that made that choice and took us to war

irregularegular · 18/06/2016 23:59

Leavetheroundabout - the IMF only forecasts no recession if the UK joins the EEA (like Norway) which requires free movement of people. Unlikely to be tenable politically following a leave vote and leave campaign largely based on the immigration issue.

Winterbiscuit · 19/06/2016 03:45

All of us can remember years gone by, and can see for ourselves whether we think the UK is in better or worse shape now. We also need to remember that the UK could well have made equal or better progress had we not joined the EU. But the main thing to consider is the long-term future. Once we leave the EU, with British inventiveness, entrepeneurial spirit and hard work, our country will be what we make it. This to me is far more valuable than submitting to a false sense of security in a political bloc with its own unreformable agenda.

Leaving the EU isn't "isolating" ourselves. It's escaping from a bloc that isn't doing well. We can still do business with people in EU countries and they with us, and we'll finally be free to form our own trade deals with countries around the world. We joined the single market decades ago, but now find ourselves in a political union which isn't necessary for trade, and is heading for a superstate.

I think there are numerous politicians who could navigate our post-Brexit arrangements successfully, but the media has given far too much airtime to figures such as Farage who aren't exactly near the centre of the political spectrum. Some programme makers might consider this makes "better TV" but it means the moderate majority are far less represented than they should be.

Some of the remain side claim it could take 10 years for the UK to leave the EU. If that's true then there would be at least two general elections during that time. Sooner or later, probably sooner, the Tories will be out. If we remain and the EU goes in a direction we don't like, there's far less we can do about it, so we're better off leaving and getting back into the driving seat in the UK.

MyHovercraftIsFullOfEels · 19/06/2016 12:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

irregularegular · 20/06/2016 17:07

This video is extremely balanced and informative. I'm afraid it is by an expert though.
www.facebook.com/UniversityofLiverpool/videos/1293361974024537/

AnnaForbes · 20/06/2016 17:19

It's escaping from a bloc that isn't doing well That's very true. I think all trading blocs aside from Antarctica are out-performing us. The EU is in decline, we don't need to be dragged down with it. If we vote leave, we can stand on our own two feet.

Good to see Hovercraft has nothing to offer and resorts to slagging off other posts. True to form.

GoodLoveShinesBrightly · 20/06/2016 17:23

Have you watched the video, Anna?

Maki79 · 20/06/2016 17:34

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the posters request.

Winterbiscuit · 20/06/2016 17:56

Speaking of Gisela Stuart, she'll be taking part in the Wembley debate, 8pm tomorrow on BBC1. Also on the Leave side, Boris Johnson and Andrea Leadsom. For Remain, Sadiq Khan, Ruth Davidson and Frances O'Grady.

OrangesandLemonsNow · 20/06/2016 17:57

Andrea Leadsom and Ruth Davidson will be very good imo.

BeakyMinder · 20/06/2016 18:28

The EU is in decline, we don't need to be dragged down with it.

This is a silly argument. Even if it was true, which it isn't, we would be affected whether in or out of the EU because its our biggest trading partner. The US and China suffer just as much when the EU does badly, and last time I looked they weren't members.

AnnaForbes · 20/06/2016 19:40

The EU is definitely in decline, even Juncker admits that the "glory days" of the EU are over. Some number crunching ...

EU's share of global GDP is falling and six of the top 10 global economies are not in the EU.

GDP for the first quarter of 2016:
India 7.9%
China 6.7%
UK 2.00%
Germany 1.6%

Youth unemployment in EU:
50.4% Greece
45.0% Spain
36.9% Italy

UKs economic growth rate over 20 years in the EEC/EU is 50% lower than the 20 years before we joined the EEC/EU.

When the EU does finally collapse, we will inevitably be effected in or out. But we are much better equipped to insulate ourselves from the worse of it if we are outside the EU and Eurozone. If we remain, we will be bailing out all the bankrupt countries.

AnnaForbes · 20/06/2016 19:41

I have tickets for The BBC Great Debate. The Leave side is very strong. Cant wait.

Winterbiscuit · 20/06/2016 19:51

Fantastic Anna!

Viviennemary · 20/06/2016 19:55

I agree the EU is in decline. There is to be another Greek bailout and a bailout for Italy too. I expect this is on hold until after the great decision on Thursday. I wonder how long the Eu will last. I bet it won't be here in say 20 years or even 15. Unless Britain is prepared to join this superstate we should vote leave on Thursday.

Winterbiscuit · 20/06/2016 20:23

How many of the pro-remain letters by experts or establishment figures to the national press were coordinated (or even written?) by no. 10?

Quoting from:

The EU Question: Letters to the Press

"Having failed failed with his "renegotiate and reform" strategy, Cameron has reverted to a more familiar approach of "Project Fear" and is essentially running an anti-Brexit campaign" ... "Prime examples of this strategy are letters to the newspapers signed by establishment figures."

The article says another letter was "orchestrated by Government officials claiming EU membership protected the UK from grave security challenges. One of the 13 signatories, Lord Bramall, said that he had been presented with the letter as a 'fait accompli'."

"No. 10 had to apologise for wrongly including General Sir Michael Rose in the list, who went on to state that the EU's erosion of UK sovereignty was a major threat to UK security."

Littlemisslovesspiders · 20/06/2016 20:36

Didn't Martin Lewis object to being in a leaflet too?

Littlemisslovesspiders · 20/06/2016 20:37

Although I know he has said he is just about a remain.

BeakyMinder · 21/06/2016 06:51

Well Martin Lewis photo and massive quote is all over the Remain advertising at the moment so pretty sure he must have warmed up a bit to allow it!

I put my name to one of the 'expert' groups coming out for Remain (won't say which as don't want to out myself). Absolutely bog all to do with Cameron. Most experts and business people are genuinely crapping themselves at the prospect of a Brexit. The potential impact on business and jobs is terrifying. Most people never thought it would be such a close race, which is why they've left it so late to speak out.

nearlyhellokitty · 21/06/2016 07:21

winter any comment on leave getting sued by Nissan, Toyota et Al for including their logos on their leaflets?

Littlemisslovesspiders · 21/06/2016 07:39

any comment on leave getting sued by Nissan, Toyota et Al for including their logos on their leaflets?

Any links for Toyota and the et al suing?.

Nissan yes and others maybe unhappy but can't find anything to find they are suing.

There are also those like Sir Michael Rose who was unhappy about his name being in a letter produced about remaining in the EU.

It also happened in the GE.

nearlyhellokitty · 21/06/2016 08:33

Toyota confirms unauthorised use of logo - ok maybe not suing although nissab is twitter.com/ToyotaGB/status/745143556143079426

Chalalala · 21/06/2016 09:07

I put my name to one of the 'expert' groups coming out for Remain (won't say which as don't want to out myself). Absolutely bog all to do with Cameron.

I didn't put my name on the appropriate "expert" letter in my field because I'm not British and didn't feel comfortable doing it, but many of my friends and colleagues did. I can confirm that in all the specific cases I am aware of, Cameron also had bog all to do with it.

That's not to say that Cameron and Remain didn't drum up support from some really big names, maybe even going to them and asking for them to sign open letters. Why on earth wouldn't they?! It's their job as political campaigners. Finding support and advertising it.

I'm getting really fed up with this conspiracy mentality. What on earth does it matter if Mr Big Expert went to Cameron with his letter or Cameron went to him. The point is, they signed the damn letter because they AGREE.