Can anyone explain why the government and others are so desperate for us to stay?

[TwentyOneGuns]

I'm the first to admit that my knowledge of politics and economics is not great but it seems to me there must be more to it than we are being told. If they are getting so scared of a Leave vote that they have to threaten us with Emergency budgets etc what are they really worrying about? I just can't believe they have only the interests of the country at heart. What do they get out of it if we vote Remain?

Martin Lewis said he is risk adverse and 55% stay 45% leave, he advised others to do what is right for them and has been very angry at the remain campaign for using him.

Justbogoff that is the most useful thing I have read on the whole thing and really helps, thank you!

I have been searching for this 'good reason' to stay in the EU for years. Still waiting.

But I know why the politicians want us in.

Traditionally Northern Europe was rich and southern Europe was poor.

The poorer southern countries of Europe needed huge investment in their infrastructure to create modern, richer economies that could buy goods from the richer Northern European countries like Germany and the Uk.

The EU was seen as a good way of redistributing money from those richer Northern European countries to these poorer European countries, and that still happens. That's why some EU members are net contributors to the EU and some are net beneficiaries.

So the UK pays in £350million per week (pre rebate) and the EU uses some of that money to support the economies of the EU members that are net recipients of EU money. It also uses UK tax payers money to give to the next set of countries that are waiting to join the EU to bring their instrausture, motorwats etc up to modern standards, before they join the EU.

So it's a form of socialist redistribution of wealth. The only way that can be enforced is to have a set of rules that all member countries have to abide by - like letting the EU make the trade deals, instead of each country making their own to suit their own countries need. That means that the European countries that we used to compete with for trade and markets suddenly became our 'EU partners'.

But to get people to agree to this you have to have some 'rewards'. For the poor countries it's easy - they get free money from the rich EU countries and their workforce gets to live and work in any EU country that want to which pays higher wages than their home country. They benefit.

For the rich countries the employers get unlimited amounts of cheap labour from the poor southern countries, which allows employers to keep wages down.

Win, win?

Not quite. Because as poorer EU countries get their improvements and their populations move to the richer countries to get work, the employers benefit, but it's the taxpayers like you and I who must find the cost of the additional public services that are needed to support the very large incraese in population that the migration presents. So the tax payers has to find the money for new schools, hospitals, homes, motorways and all the other infrastucure that's required. That's why rich people like the EU - they gain, while the tax payer picks up the tab.

But to keep you shackled to the failing EU they pretend that if you leave you will be denied access to their 'single market' and your economy will collapse (Osborne's Project Fear). Of course this is not true because 168 other countries in the world that are not in the EU manage to trade quite happily without being in the EU.

So, the EU is the biggest confidence trick ever perpetrated on the Uk and the British people need to stand up and say 'enough'. It's ruining the country we love.

TattyCat

I posted this on a different thread. It might help.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/a2662642-Can-anyone-explain-why-the-government-and-others-are-so-desperate-for-us-to-stay?msgid=61727241#61727241

I think that list can be rewritten as

Here are a few that strongly believe the UK should remain a member of the EU:

• Governor of the Bank of England
• International Monetary Fund
• Institute for Fiscal Studies
• Confederation of British Industry
• Leaders/heads of state of every single other member of the EU
• President of the United States of America
• Eight former US Treasury Secretaries
• President of China
• Prime Minister of India
• Prime Minister of Canada
• Prime Minister of Australia
• Prime Minister of Japan
• Prime Minister of New Zealand
• The chief executives of most of the top 100 companies in the UK including Marks and Spencer, BT, Asda, Vodafone, Virgin, IBM, BMW etc.
• Kofi Annan, the former Secretary General of the United Nations
• All living former Prime Ministers of the UK (from both parties)
• Virtually all reputable and recognised economists
• The Prime Minister of the UK
• The leader of the Labour Party
• The Leader of the Liberal Democrats
• The Leader of the Green Party
• The Leader of the Scottish National Party
• The leader of Plaid Cymru
• Leader of Sinn Fein
• Martin Lewis, that money saving dude off the telly
• The Secretary General of the TUC
• Unison
• National Union of Students
• National Union of Farmers
• Stephen Hawking
• Chief Executive of the NHS
• 300 of the most prominent international historians
• Director of Europol
• David Anderson QC, Independent Reviewer of Terrorism Legislation
• Former Directors of GCHQ
• Secretary General of Nato
• Church of England
• Church in Scotland
• Church in Wales
• Friends of the Earth
• Greenpeace
• Director General of the World Trade Organisation
• WWF
• World Bank
• OECD

Here are pretty much the only notable people who think we should leave the EU:

• The British people

Every one of these in that long list posted by bogoff is their opinion of what would be best for THEM.

I can give you loads of reasons why thise people, parties and organisations want us in the EU:

Our EU net payments of £Billions a year
While we're in the EU we are not their trading competitors because our trade is controlled by the EU
They value access to the intelligence we get from the US
They want a stable EU to trade with - us leaving causes THEM uncertainty
They value our position as 5th largest economy in the world - that increases the overall size of the EU
They want to retain their jobs - the Chamber of Commerce leader was sacked for speaking out for LEAVE
They want honours
If they have honours they want ennoblement
They want to keep us in so we end up assisting with the next lot of bailouts

They like our special relationship to the US, that they don;t have
They value our access to the Commonwealth that they don't readily have
Many of those organisations receive EU funds - like the TUC, the BBC, the RSPB, most of our universities, - he who pays the piper call the EU tune.

Take the Labour party. TUC gets EU funding. TUC also funds Labour Party. Logic says that Labour wants REMAIN so TUC continues to fund it and TUC wants REMAIN because the EU gives it money. Notice - whether it's good/bad for the British worker is not considered and some TUs like RMT and ASLEF are recommending LEAVE

If you want to know how people really feel about the EU, as the EX leaders of those organisations - the ones who can talk freely because they have nothing to lose.
like EX Chancellors Lawson, EX security chief Dearlove, ex UK Commander Col Kemp and so on.....
They are all LEAVE voters

The EU is just a corrupt and venal organisation full of self-interest and run by big companies for big companies. It does nothing for the ordinary person except rob them of their sovereignty and right to self-determination.

I agree with YourPerception

"Compliant people are doing as told by the party leader, their boss etc and staying.

Free thinkers and rebels are voting out. "

and Springing

"The EU is just a corrupt and venal organisation full of self-interest and run by big companies for big companies. It does nothing for the ordinary person except rob them of their sovereignty and right to self-determination."

'Can anyone explain why the government and others are so desperate for us to stay? '

Because as Gordon Brown says "what sort of message would we send to the world" if we decide to leave?

The whole underlying aim of the EU is the end of the nation state, and by us leaving we will have started the collapse of that goal and have begun a return to the nation state.

The servants are not allowed to go against the suprantaional project of ending nation states which is why they are terrified of us choosing to leave.

The economy is on a knife edge, this will tip it over. No one wants another recession that is why they desperately want us to remain.

Our economy will be f*ed if we leave. Trade becomes harder, jobs will be lost, investment slows - all of which means the government has less money. That could be temporary, or it could be long term. No one knows. No government would encourage this; recessions should be avoided.

Our legal system will be screwed too - literally hundreds of laws will need to be redrafted and passed.

The country has plenty of problems to deal with right now without creating thousands more.

Our economy will be f*ed if we leave.

No it won't. It will grow as we trade freely with an additional 168 countries that the EU prevents us from currently trading freely with. We ere fined £20 million by the EU for buying Chinese garlic!

Trade becomes harder, jobs will be lost, investment slows - all of which means the government has less money. That could be temporary, or it could be long term. No one knows.

Even the Government's own EU funded propaganad shows the effcet will be short term and the OEVCD says that our economy will grow outside the EU.

No government would encourage this; recessions should be avoided.
This 'recession' would be 0.1% for 4 quarters - if at all because you can only forecast a recession at all by dwelling on the worst case. You'd hardly notice it.

Our legal system will be screwed too - literally hundreds of laws will need to be redrafted and passed.

That is not true. Our legal system is already screwed as laws passed by our democratically elected Government are over-turned by Bulgarian and Portuguese judges in the EU. I call that pretty screwed.

Hundreds of laws do not need to be 'redrafted and passed' at all. You clearly don;t understand that all laws handed to us from the EU have already been assented into UK law by our Parliament and Queen. They already exist as UK law. We may want to repeal some of them - but not all of them and not immediately

The country has plenty of problems to deal with right now without creating thousands more.

Reamining in the EU will casuse us far more problems than leaving. If we Remain we will face
Greek bailouts
Bailouts of other EU countries as the Eurozone collapses
Continued uncontrolled mass migration from the EU
EU Army that will be sent in to 'protect the EU foreign policy' according to EU President Junckers
Turkey, Albania, Montenegro, Serbia, Kososvo, Bosnia all joining the EU and all with a right to come to live and work in the Uk and use our schools, NHS etc
TTIP that will kill the NHS

Now, looking at that list I think that the short term 'shock' of a possible minor recession that we may barely notice is a price well worth paying to avoid that lot.

Economy screwed, legal system in tatters unless the new government decides to preserve the many existing rules that come from the EU (and which generally the UK has been driving through). Pound collapses, purchasing power goes through the floor, inflation goes up due to pound collapse and tariffs. Pension system hits funding problems because it is still mostly pay as you go, so getting rich of economically active migrants not entirely sensible...

It is because we just don't need the uncertainty of what happens if we get the nightmare scenario of a "leave" vote.

I see some of you have really bought the Project Fear.

Sad to think that as a nation we allow ourselves to be whipped like a Tory MP - by a Tory Chancellor.

Not.Project Fear for me.

I did spend some time on the fence, but in the end when it comes to big decisions (and they don't come much bigger than this) I am normally a "devil I know" kind of person.

I don't like to rock the boat financially or economically, and a "leave" vote brings too much uncertainty - just what the financial markets don't like.

As others have said upthread, if you invest in a pension you are very likely a shareholder. Many of them are invested in a range of unit trusts on the Stock Market, which has certainly become very jittery in recent weeks as the referendum approaches.

Some of you are selling your freedom very cheaply.

Sad that you've fallen for enslavement by big Corpa

The middle class graduate has been enslaved and conned by the conservatives. They are actually really the upper working class. Compliant and enslaved by debt. The compliant MC worry about travel and their investments so do as they are told they vote stay.

The working class are in a revolt over immigration causing their income to be reduced and their children having no training to enter a trade.

Free thinkers are looking at this away from immigration and economics. They are not interested in the NLP abusive parent rhetoric of FOG (fear obligation and guilt) the MC fall for.

we just don't need the uncertainty of what happens if we get the nightmare scenario of a "leave" vote.

I think it's exactly what we need. We don't need to be ushered along the EU's pre-decided path. We need a country where we don't know what is going to happen yet because we are free and not being told what's next for us.

Agree re British public wanting to go.

There's no benefit to the average person but lots of obvious costs - packed trains, hospitals, no jobs for teenage children, schools with 32/33 per class

I work at a leading UK bank and everyone in my department is voting leave

Even internally at the bank the number of EU-based bank start applying for every job in London (on cheaper wages) makes it difficult for English staff in an English company in England.

This level of competition for jobs and everything else is stressful and unnecessary

As my manager said he wouldn't move to Krackow for work, or his children won't study in Lithuania. So why are their young people flooding Uk

Justbogoff, your list, as I pointed out on the other thread, is full of people with a healthy self-interest in staying in. The charities and unions are generally beneficiaries of the EU funding (that's money we give in tax to the EU), the heads of other countries want us to remain because it is best for their country not ours. Do you honestly think the President of China gives a shiny shit about our welfare and prosperity? Most MPs are in it for their financial gain (crony capitalism at its best) and for every business leader that wants to remain, I can name one who wants to leave.

As my manager said he wouldn't move to Krackow for work, or his children won't study in Lithuania. So why are their young people flooding Uk Emma, the remainers always use free movement as an argument to remain but most other countries have a lot less to offer than us. That's why net EU migration here is 184,000 p.a.

My children might opt to move to another country but probably not as youth unemployment is horrendous in most of the EU. As Dreda Mitchell recently said "I'm fed up with hearing about what's good for big business and high-flying professionals; at street level, views are far more mixed. I don't know many kids from the estates who are excited about starting their own media company in Milan"

She sums it up brilliantly for me.

I have been searching for this 'good reason' to stay in the EU for years. Still waiting

There are several different reasons, and they dont always make sense as they can run counter to each other, i.e the ones for me are not the ones put out by remain.

Tories and Labour have for decades now turned our countries industries into services, one of the biggest is the Financial sector (the worlds largest wikpedia), for which even on MN there have been some reminding us plebs how much tax and wealth they generate for UKplc.

Now a move out of Europe would put this sector at risk of revenue and job losses 'to the establishment' (this is where i meander into springing into actions terrritory) Many other countries are we are told jealous of the position we hold, by losing a foothold in Europe we could lose out to the Deutsch Boerse or one of the other centres (spelling)

The British aerospace industry is the second- or third-largest national aerospace industry depending on the method of measurement (wiki)

We have a lot of joint working with Europe and I am sure this would impact our business if we had to then deal with tarrifs and staff restrictions.

The pharmaceutical industry plays an important role in the economy and the UK has the third-highest share of global pharmaceutical R&D. (Wiki)

This I guess is why the pharma industry was so quick to come out as pro remain, we get a lot of EU funding, there is a lot of exchange of people and resources aided by being in the EU as we are.

These are the kind of classic remain reasons for me.

Personally I prefer the EU outlook to working, the benefits that they wish to install in employers, the improvements to our environment, that we all work to similar standards to cut wastage, people reaching across divides to solve problems. Yes springingback we could bring in but with Nu-Labour and Tories - never happen.

We have global problems that need co-ordinated solutions not picking up our toys and running away.

That to me sounds cowardly and not 'British' at all.

I am in/stay & nothing will convince me other wise but, the list that's been printed on here twice & I've since seen it on Facebook aren't helping. And career Euro sceptic Corbyn piping up hasn't really helped either.

Good post going around facebook, with how after Manchester bombing there was a regeneration fund of £21 million pounds. UK only contributed £150,000 rest came from EU.

Again when people say 'EU does nothing has no interest in us' you need to question it.