Anyone else daring to get a bit excited now

[Millyonthefloss]

I am starting to allow myself to get excited about a better, fairer future for our country.

Dennis Skinner and John Mann of Labour coming out for Brexit.

And a letter from the JCB Chairman on the BBC website.

The letter he said he was "very confident that we can stand on our own two feet".
He also said that more than 53% of all UK exports go to non-EU nations.
In response, the Remain side said firms including Airbus and BMW, had already written to their staff to put the benefits of staying in the EU.

Lord Bamford told his employees that the referendum's outcome "will determine the future of our country" with a "lasting impact on the lives of our children and grandchildren".

Lovely principled men.

Craig

We are a nation with a neoliberal economic and political philosophy at its heart. Thatcherism, followed by New Labour and now the Tories are big proponents of this. Boris is too, he's a long supporter of TTIP.

Post EU Britain will be a country owned by and run by big corporations. That is what small government means, fewer elected officials and more unelected CEOs deciding how are daily lives are run.

*claig

Damn autocorrect!

Post EU Britain will be a country owned by and run by big corporations. That is what small government means, fewer elected officials and more unelected CEOs deciding how are daily lives are run.

You Remainers are very keen on evidence. Well the evidence does not support thatstatement.
Th evidence shows that the Remain campaign is funded by big banks, Gold man Sachs, Jp Morgan, big corporations, hedge funds, management consutancies - big boys with their 30,000 lobbyists in Brussels all helping the EU shape its laws to suit those big companies.

I do not accept that Goldman Sachs et al, in recommending and funding Remain campaign, has the interests of the average British worker at their hearts. It is quite an unnatural contortion to think they do. Yet that is what you are trying to tell us.

The EU is their bitch and we are their wage slaves. Let's Leave and start making laws that suit the people of this country and not the big banks. remind me - when did the big banks that caused the financial crisis undergo their rehabilitation as protectors of workers rights? I must have missed that one.

Clangersarepink, you are right they are all the same. Boris's dad is a big environmentalist, just like royalty, and is for the elite's population control programmes. He worked in the EU alongside Italian communist luminaries who worked in the EU. The EU is an elitist project stuffed full of communists, socialists and elitists all working for big business and banks and the great and the good. They are all on the same page and all go to Eton and Oxford and serve the same agenda.

So, yes Boris goes along with it most of the time. But what has happened is that Boris, for his own personal advancement, has broken with the consensus of his chums. Everyone knows he is not Eurosceptic as Louise Mensch always said and that is why his mate Sir Nicholas Soames is spitting blood at Boris's betrayal of the clique of chums and cronies by going for Brexit.

The reason Boris has gone for Brexit is that he is not stupid and has smelt the coffee and seen which way the wind is blowing and how the people are rebelling against the clique of cronies and chums who have governed us for so long. He wants power so he has ditched them. He probably thinks that if he wins he will wink and nod to them and say don't worry chaps, I'll see you right, but it won't work that way.

As Farage rightly said "there will be a Big Bang of British politics: nothing will remain the same" and Boris and the chums won't be able to control it as our system breaks up and is realigned. After the deck of cards is shuffled and the musical chairs is played, the chums from Oxbridge will find that there is no seat left for them as we have entered a new world.

At that point, Boris will live with the new reality and become a populist and follow the people. Boris is a politically correct idiot who insulted Trump, but when Trump wins, Boris will change his spots and do what he has to to remain in power and that will be to please the people.

So things are changing and the Oxbridge clique can't stop it because the whole world is changing and they have to change with it.

'Post EU Britain will be a country owned by and run by big corporations.'

No, because the democratic structure wil be realigned in a multiparty PR system and the corporate lobbyists won't be able to control all of Corbyn, the Greens and UKIP, even though they will probably control Umunna and the Tory modernisers. Boris will have to play to the gallery and go along with the people because the democratic power will lie with them and not with the lobbyists any more.

Small government is better because it means that the bureaucrats and "named person" fanatics and socialist planners can't interfere with the people and tax them too much as their power remit is small rather than large, so they can't get up to their usual tricks any more.

My professional life has shown me the benefits of the EU. I've benefited from better employment rights (despite the Tory party removing protection in the first two years), a cleaner environment and a right to appeal to a higher authority should it be needed. Most strikingly the embodiment of technical standardisation through directives and underpinning harmonised standards has improved operability, Safety and market access. Mutual recognition agreements mean this extends well beyond the EU. What's more we influence the directives and directly sit on the technical committies setting the standards! What on earth can you be thinking to vote out? Leaving the EU will only weaken our borders so no silver bullets there for immigration bandwagon

The British Standards Institute works with other national standards institutions just as our accounting standards bodies do. We cooperate and harmonise standards all the time, but that doesn't mean we have to have our laws made by an unaccounatble, unelected elite of former communists and party apparatchiks instead of our own elected representatives. And that doesn't mean we have to keep the Kinnocks in EU pensions or the perks they once received.

Re regulations

I don't want every aspect of my life ordered by the EU. It's unnecessary.

Tebbit said one of the hardest things in his discussions with the EU was the cultural difference between the UK and mainland EU.

In the UK we have a an unwritten constitution whereby you are permitted to do anything you want, as long as you don't break the law.

Whereas, in mainland EU they have a culture of believing they are only permitted to do what is written down as permissible.

The UK stance leads to innovation, enterprise and challenge. The EU stance leads to servitude, compliance and control.

The EU is trying to extinguish that UK spirit of 'anything is possible until you tell me it isn'' with 'we will tell you what you can do.

It's time to bin the over-regulation of our every day lives and re-establish that basic fact that they work for us - we are not servants to them
.

Absolutely. Our system is not perfect and we have unaccountable elites lording over us in secret, but by God, it is more free than much of Europe based on our historical common law approach which we bequeathed to the United States, who are far more free than us.

Look at Scotland and their socialist "named person" system. English people would never accept that, even though Blair and the gang would probably want to impose such a thing on us. Freedom is in our DNA, just as it is for Americans.

However, under the EU socialist servant project of big buisness and banks, we are slowly losing our freedoms and independence which is why the only opposition to it is from populist parties who oppose the socialism of "named person" type regulation.

It will be fascinating to see what happens if we vote Brexit. In France, Holland and Ireland, the elitists and communists and bankers told their people to vote again until they got it right. They will probably try it with us, but I think we will stun the world by telling our servant class where to get off if they try and trick us because we have freedom in our historical DNA and we won't accept an elite riding roughshod over the will of the people.

We defeated Blair and the gan'g's drive to fit us out with biometric ID cards and DNA databases. It was Boris who joked that he would shred his ID card and feed it to his children on their cornflakes. Boris may be a politically correct idiot who insulted Trump, but he is far better than Blair and the gang.

There is now talk that the EU is working towards an internet ID, an online passport, which everyone must have before being allowed to use things like facebook etc.

The likes of Blair and the gang will be all for things like that. They'll be back, they'll try it again, but by then we will be out of the EU and our two party stitchup will be gone and they won't have an easy time of it.

"socialist named person system"

"Blair and the gang"

claig I can't work out if you're deliberately trying to sound like a cartoon Clarkson or if it just comes naturally [immense facepalm]

The reason equal pay will go, for whoever asked, is that the Tories will tell us 'business can't afford it, we have to be competitive' and will remove it. Most likely it'll go for small businesses first, then Tesco and the like will say it's not fair on them and the government will do it. That's the future outside the EU. It's not all great in, but I am very worried about the model for Leave where business will have control and we'll get things like TTIP anyway.

Wow! You mention Tebit's opinion as a reason to stay, the man threw people on the scrapheap during the 80s -apparently "unemployment is a price worth paying" - if it's not your job!
Spring,
The BSI Is a standards body it already maintains harmonised standards under BS/EN which are identical the IEC documents. The result would be a divergence of BS from the IEC set creating more regulatory hoops as anyone exporting to an EU market would still have to comply. -Spring you are awfully confused.
As for arguing about written/unwritten constitutions and suggesting that the latter results in needing regulatory approval before action is plain daft... have you been to France! In any case we are not voting on a constitutional change.
The Looney leave brigade typically seem to be ultra right wing or angry about unrelated issues and looking for a way to protest. Unfortunately they are trying to destroy my country and my children's future from a position of arrogance or ignorance probably on a diet of daily mail and football.

Cameron and Farage to be interviewed on the Andrew Marr Show now.

Farage did brilliantly. Common sense.

Now we await Cameron.

BoatyMcboatface that is all.

Terrified at the prospect of what's about to happen.

One question do we count out the Eu migrants as well as in.

As 10 years ago when polish workers came I'd get loads applying for jobs. I haven't had a single pole, Romanian or any other Eastern European apply for a role in the last 3 years. Yet the total number of applicants remains similar.

We need migration at all levels of work. Lots of employers I know are struggling to find staff. A walk through my local market town recently and their were 17 jobs advertised in shop windows.

I also wonder about Dyson and JCB both who now manufacture a large proportion of thief products overseas and thus would be unlikely to be affected exporting from the UK

I think we are nuts if we leave.

Cameron all over the place. Mired in wonk detail, no clear message. Keep it simple, stupid. People putting the kettle on, given up listening.

Peter Hitchens article n today's Mail on Sunday, which is in with the Establishment generally unlike the Daily Mail which isn't. The chums are in trouble, the cronies are on the way out.

"PETER HITCHENS: The British people have risen at last - and we're about to unleash chaos

I think we are about to have the most serious constitutional crisis since the Abdication of King Edward VIII. I suppose we had better try to enjoy it.

If – as I think we will – we vote to leave the EU on June 23, a democratically elected Parliament, which wants to stay, will confront a force as great as itself – a national vote, equally democratic, which wants to quit. Are we about to find out what actually happens when an irresistible force meets an immovable object?

I am genuinely unsure how this will work out. I hope it will only destroy our two dead political parties, stiffened corpses that have long propped each other up with the aid of BBC endorsement and ill-gotten money.

I was wrong to think that the EU referendum would be so hopelessly rigged that the campaign for independence was doomed to lose. I overestimated the Prime Minister – a difficult thing for me to do since my opinion of him was so low. I did not think he could possibly have promised this vote with so little thought, preparation or skill.

I underestimated the BBC, which has, perhaps thanks to years of justified and correct criticism from people such as me, taken its duty of impartiality seriously.

Everything I hear now suggests that the votes for Leave are piling up, while the Remain cause is faltering and floundering. The betrayed supporters of both major parties now feel free to take revenge on their smug and arrogant leaders.

It has been a mystery to me that these voters stayed loyal to organisations that repeatedly spat on them from a great height. Labour doesn’t love the poor. It loves the London elite. The Tories don’t love the country. They love only money. The referendum, in which the parties are split and uncertain, has freed us all from silly tribal loyalties and allowed us to vote instead according to reason. We can all vote against the heedless, arrogant snobs who inflicted mass immigration on the poor (while making sure they lived far from its consequences themselves). And nobody can call us ‘racists’ for doing so. That’s not to say that the voters are ignoring the actual issue of EU membership as a whole. As I have known for decades, this country has gained nothing from belonging to the European Union, and lost a great deal.
...
Do these people even know what they are saying when they call us ‘Little Englanders’?

England has never been more little than it is now, a subject province of someone else’s empire.

I have to say that this isn’t the way out I would have chosen, and that I hate referendums because I love our ancient Parliament. And, as I loathe anarchy and chaos, I fear the crisis that I think is coming.

I hope we produce people capable of handling it. I wouldn’t have started from here. But despite all this, it is still rather thrilling to see the British people stirring at last after a long, long sleep."

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3637246/PETER-HITCHENS-British-people-risen-unleash-chaos.html

When we wake up on Jun 24, everything will look the same, the BBC will still be broadcasting, the same liars will be on TV, but everything, everything will have changed beneath the surface. The chums will be in crisis.

'The betrayed supporters of both major parties now feel free to take revenge on their smug and arrogant leaders.'

Umunna, Hilary Benn, Cameron, Osborne, the list of them is endless. Their credibility will be shot to pieces and however much airtime the BBC depserately grants them, their oleaginous tones will be ignored by the people. The entire crap will end and a new system will have to emerge, one that gives the people a voice, that respects democracy and limits the power of the elites and the servant class who suck up to them.

Claig
You're not living in the real world. What happens a year after a leave vote when you realise that none of your gripes with the world were really concerned with the EU and the country is on its knees? I'll guess you'll probably wait for the daily mail to tell you who to hate next.

I believe in Britain and the British people. Together we will make Britain better and our corrupt craven political class will be completely transformed as a better democracy emerges.

I agree with Hitchens who says

"I hope it will only destroy our two dead political parties, stiffened corpses that have long propped each other up with the aid of BBC endorsement and ill-gotten money."

The crap is over. Umunna, Benn, Cameron and the chums will be history as a new democracy that respects the people instead of preaching to them emerges. Britain will emerge as oone of the most dynamic, democratic, outward looking, globally reaching countries in the world and our business and national life will flourish when the old, tired company of cronies and chums are no longer in charge of our country.

"You're not living in the real world."

The real world is that the EU is about to collapse. It is a huge change and a lot of chums don't want to face reality. Cameron, leader of the chums, kicked it off through total naivete and incompetence which we have come to expect from him.

I disagree with Hitchens when he said

"I overestimated the Prime Minister – a difficult thing for me to do since my opinion of him was so low. I did not think he could possibly have promised this vote with so little thought, preparation or skill."

Ever since I saw Cameron blowing in the wind and railing against the election of Juncker when he had zero support among his EU chums who outvoted him 26-1 or 26-2, I realised that Cameron was a chum up shit's creek without a paddle. He is something out of a Jeeves and Wooster novel, a cheerful chum.

As Farage says

"The EU is about to collapse, disintegrating in several pieces."

That is the real world. It is happening because of its unpopularity, undemocratic nature and disdain for the people. Cameron has accelerated the process.

The result of its collapse will be the collape in credibility of our entire political class of cronies and chums. It is the biggest change in 70 years and it wil transform Britain for the better as the people are freed from the dead wood of the chums who have ignored and disrespected the people for so long.

A lot of speculation and non fact based opinion on this thread. It's an emotive subject and I understand people get passionate about, myself included.

I am an out and out leave voter, and yes, I am excited at the prospect of leave winning the vote- however I don't think it will happen remain will likely win.

My reasons for voting leave are:

1. Immigration needs to be controlled. Open borders within Europe are unsustainable and if the numbers grow as forecasted housing and public services won't be able to support everyone at their current standard. There should be a limit on immigrants coming into the UK each year. A huge issue for me.

1. The economy. We DO give £350billion per annum to Brussels. That fact is correct that is the gross figure. The bet figure is lower and some comes back to us. Apart from the deficit the rest of the money coming back to us has strings attached, Brussels decide how we have to spend it. I disagree wholeheartedly with this. There is then a proportion of that money we never see again. Even if our trade deals with Europe had to have a tariff applied of forecasted same levels other non EU countries have to pay we would still be better off.

1. I don't for one second believe the UK government would repeal all human rights laws. That's preposterous and just unintelligent.

1. National security. Terrorists have been shown to have moved through the EU to Britain. If we monitored our borders we would have better control over national security and more protection against terrorist attacks.

1. Europe is failing economically. It's not a good thing to be tied to and especially with talk of admitting turkey and such like.

I'm hoping against hope we manage to get out. If you're undecided please watch some debates and read the facts before voting. You're not a racist or a bad person to vote Brexit.

Brexit serving up pie in the sky and hyperbole. We're going to live in a socialist utopia under Brexit served up by the modern day Marx and Engels - Johnson and Gove. Neo liberalism and globalisation will simply wither away.

Yes, it really is that ridiculous.

Anushka Asthana, who is a very god common sense journalist who used to work for Sky and is now with the Guardian, said on the Sunday Politics that there is "real fear in Cameron's eyes", that "there were tears among some Labour people when they saw the polls", that there is "panic" in the Remain campaign.

They have opened Pandora's box, kicked off something they can't control and can't spin and lie their way out of. Now it is up to us, the people, to restore common sense, end the crap and bring the chums' castle of crap crashing down.

Here is an article about it from the Telegraph but I can't read it as you now need to subscribe to read the Telegraph online

"Senior Labour Party officials have been reduced to tears by a surge in support for Brexit"

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/11/jeremy-corbyn-under-pressure-with-labour-staff-reduced-to-tears/

Cameron is reported to not be getting much sleep. Bollockings are being dished out left, right and centre and it all depends on the British people, the fate of the entire elitist EU project depends on little old us.