Anyone else daring to get a bit excited now

[Millyonthefloss]

I am starting to allow myself to get excited about a better, fairer future for our country.

Dennis Skinner and John Mann of Labour coming out for Brexit.

And a letter from the JCB Chairman on the BBC website.

The letter he said he was "very confident that we can stand on our own two feet".
He also said that more than 53% of all UK exports go to non-EU nations.
In response, the Remain side said firms including Airbus and BMW, had already written to their staff to put the benefits of staying in the EU.

Lord Bamford told his employees that the referendum's outcome "will determine the future of our country" with a "lasting impact on the lives of our children and grandchildren".

Lovely principled men.

I dread the idea of brexit - we will retreat into little England - stuck with the football hooligans and the Queen

I have never heard such a strange break down of the UK, footy hooligans and the queen wow!

smanysweets and yet its the poor people of the uk who have most been sold down the swannie by so much immigration.

More of a labour issue really which is why those who are human and have a heart are supporting leave.

look at the labour supporting remain, they smug - hampstead hill lot as andy burham said.

It is hardly surprising that Labour’s Northern heartlands are so anti-EU, says Dr Mark Baimbridge, senior economics lecturer at Bradford University and one of the authors of The Labour Case For Brexit.

‘EU enlargement, particularly in 2004 and 2007 with the admission of Central and Eastern European countries, impacted on the transfer of funds from the EU budget to economically depressed areas such as the North of England. [But] these funds have now essentially dried up,’ he says. ‘This will make economic regeneration a much harder and longer task.’

we will retreat into little England

I remember that in the discussions about joining, a lot of people were worried that we were turning our backs on the Commonwealth, breaking up old trading relationships, and restricting ourselves to looking only towards Europe.

I'm a probable Leave voter. As such I've been called racist, xenophobic, bigoted, stupid, uneducated... Do I really want to change my mind and vote with people who have been hurling insults at me just because my opinion is different from theirs?

As to 'we don't know what will happen if we leave', we don't know what will happen if we stay in either. Personally I believe that sooner or later the whole EU will collapse in on itself. Maybe not in my lifetime, but I believe it will happen. So I'd prefer to take this opportunity to make an orderly withdrawal. We might not get another chance.

flavia asking from a "non-argument" perspective - what are your reasons for wanting to leave? Honestly?

Great post Flavia

Oh and now I'm a NIMBY as well, I see.

if we leave it is likely that my dh will lose his job as will many others in science and engineering. I am dreading it.

Take back what, exactly?

We'll still have to abide by the small amount of EU legislation that overrides UK law, because Europe isn't going away, so there is nothing to gain.

No. I'm worried and scared at the prospect of a leave vote.

Anne eliott you are wrong.

The equal pay act was indeed given royal assent in 1970, so that the uk could comply with article 141 but it wasn't brought into force until 1975. We have European Union law to thank for equal pay, and given that there is still a significant pay gap and many brexit Tories are on record as saying that European equality laws are a break on job creation, it would most certainly not be safe under a brexit govt, who anyway would have their hands full firefighting a recession.

Read michael ford's opinion on the impact of brexit on employment rights if you want chapter and verse on their European genesis.

2Many, I genuinely don't think the EU will survive long term. The euro is already under enormous strain.What will happen if German voters decide they've had enough of propping it up? What if the Greeks, or others, decide they don't want to be part of it any more?

I said 'maybe not in my lifetime', but no-one my age thought the Berlin Wall or the Iron Curtain would come down in our lifetime; stay or leave, we have no idea what might be round the corner. So I think this vote might be our one and only chance extricate ourselves.

That's a fair point but I still don't get it: are you basically saying that it's wise for us to "jump before we are pushed" ie if as you say it all falls in on itself that we'd get "dragged under"? And is that economically/politically?

Flavia, as a remainer, I have had my fair share of insults too. I'm not patriotic being the mildest.

I don't think either side is innocent.

I'm not excited, I'm concerned. Not overly worried as Brexit won't affect me much but concerned for the future of Britain if it does leave, and my family that are there (particularly my mum who doesn't have British citizenship and don't think she would want to get it either)

I'm not excited at all: I'm scared for the future. DH is an EU immigrant, with our dd settled in school, our own house (mortgage). All the anti-immigration stuff makes me anxious. If we want to be part of the EEA and trade, part of the deal is free flow of labour within in it. If we leave the EEA to stop mEu migration, I'm not sure what will happen to the current migrants - and no one has yet given and answer.

I don't earn enough for a spousal visa and I'm not sure DH wants to be a British citizen anyway (not that it mattered up to now, but may be in the future).

We are planning our exit strategy from England, in case the vote is to leave, it's too much uncertainty.

So excited wouldn't be the word I'd use to describe my feeling about the referendum.

I'm really scared that a leave vote might get through. DP works for a firm which exports its product to other EU countries, so I worry that he would lose his job. And in the city we live in, most of the non-export jobs are in tourism and higher education, both of which are supported hugely by the EU.

So I'm worried that we'll end up unemployed and and trapped in negative equity as we watch our lovely city fall to pieces.

The equal pay act was passed in 1970? So nothing to do with the EU guaranteeing women get paid the same as men!

It had everything to do with the EU. It was passed to bring the UK in line with the Treaty of Rome so that the UK could join the EU.

I think even if we don't leave the vote will be very close and thats enough to make some changes

and this might not so much be here but abroad other countries are watching to see what happens with many in Europe calling for a referendum

The Swedish foreign minister said today if we do leave it could cause a domino effect and may lead to the end of the EU

I think even if we don't and he vote is close which it seems to be heading that way it will still have an impact France leaving could also lead the way to other countries leaving

I would rather leave now

If we vote leave, the EU is done for. Its all on their head, all they had to do was agree to limit immigration and I bet the remain campaign would won by a large margin. The EU countries refused to agree with what anything Cameron tried to change, they will live to regret that.

Sadly, Rebecca, I think it's the leave voters who might live to regret their decisions. I think a leave vote will be bad for all of us.

Ironically, it's those who are most likely to feel the negative effects of immigration at the moment who will probably bear the brunt of the economic downturn if we were to vote leave. There might be fewer immigrants, but if the economy crashes, there will be fewer jobs too, and much less money for the welfare state.

To be stuck on this island with the tories scares the crap out of me. They'll have free rein to do their worst. We haven't seen anything yet.

It is estimated that only about 6% of our businesses export to the EU. There won't be a crash.

I'm wondering if there will be a reverse of the traditional "brain drain" as academics and people working in STEM areas move their work to Ireland.

'They'll have free rein to do their worst'

They have a majority of about 11 and after Brexit, the Establishment stooges are likely to split from the Brexiters so they will get even weaker. They can't do anything they like. Remember that what the Tory stooges would like is to stay in the EU, but they are unlikely even to get that.