Anyone else daring to get a bit excited now

[Millyonthefloss]

I am starting to allow myself to get excited about a better, fairer future for our country.

Dennis Skinner and John Mann of Labour coming out for Brexit.

And a letter from the JCB Chairman on the BBC website.

The letter he said he was "very confident that we can stand on our own two feet".
He also said that more than 53% of all UK exports go to non-EU nations.
In response, the Remain side said firms including Airbus and BMW, had already written to their staff to put the benefits of staying in the EU.

Lord Bamford told his employees that the referendum's outcome "will determine the future of our country" with a "lasting impact on the lives of our children and grandchildren".

Lovely principled men.

Excited ? No.

Terrified ? Yes

The thought of a Johnson / Osborne led government makes me want to vomit. Cameron is bad enough but Johnson wouldn't know what a principle was if it came up and kicked him in the face.

No, I'm not excited.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-poll-brexit-leave-campaign-10-point-lead-remain-boris-johnson-nigel-farage-david-a7075131.html

EU Referendum: Massive swing to Brexit – with just 12 days to go

All the way through it has been clear that brexiters were more likely to vote too. That's the problem with relying on dodgy economics, you might convince people that they may be £20 a month worse off but upholding democracy is more important.

I've said for some time that Leave need 60%+ otherwise the establishment will find some reason or excuse. Might be on course for that.

Yes. I started to get a bit excited yesterday. I had visions of me weeping with joy if we get out. I never usually get this passionate about politics.

'I'm wondering if there will be a reverse of the traditional "brain drain" as academics and people working in STEM areas move their work to Ireland.'

Don't forget that we have more Nobel Prize winners from Trinity College, Cambridge than there are in all of France combined and that had nothing to do with the EU. We have some of the best universities in the world, and despite the lowering of standards in schools under the leadership of Labour's Gordon Bennett, we still have a very educated and innovative and creative scientific community.

As an exporting nation with the entire world, we will pour savings from the EU budget into science and technology, our infrastructure in London, Oxford and Cambridge with Silicon Fen and our airports etc is second to none and we are a great country to live in for foreign talent, despite our useless political class.

UKIP said they wanted to abolish tuition fees for STEM subjects, so we may well get more investment in that vital sector.

not excited, horrified that such an important decision is being made mostly on guts reactions about immigration and British is Best.

It'll be a fucking disaster OP.

Democracy? In the UK? Oh, that'll be the Tory government, elected on 37% of the popular vote, dictated to by big business and the banks.

Immigration? Calais will just become Dover.

£350 million? I can guarantee you that none of us will see a penny of it, in the NHS or elsewhere.

Abolish tuition fees for STEM subjects? So the UK's creative industries are worth nothing to us, and our artists/actors/musicians/writers aren't worth support and investment? Last time I looked, our creative types were making rather a lot of money for the UK economy. UKIP should be abolishing tuition fees for all rather than cherry picking STEM subjects and trashing arts subjects.

The £350 million is a completely false figure.

The office of statistics has said so.
Radio 4 has been running a series answering questions and this question came up. The real figure is quite small. Why? well, the sums go something like:

£350 million goes in, then our rebate come back, then the subsidies to farmers come back, then x amount come back for y reason etc etc.

There is a small net amount of pure money that we pay, but that doesn't account for the other hidden financial benefits we get from being part of EU.

So, don't expect to see £350 million spent on NHS etc, because £350 million doesn't exist.

'UKIP should be abolishing tuition fees for all rather than cherry picking STEM subjects and trashing arts subjects.'

There is only so much money left to go around after Labour's Gordon Bennett led us into the greatest economic crash since the Great Depression shortly after saying he had "abolished boom and bust".

UKIP haven't got a magic and to wish away Bennett's legacy, so they have to set priorities and science and technology are the most important areas to drive innovation and invention for the future.

one of the 'industries' bringing in loads of money and kudos to the UK is the animation industry. Eg Aardman's studio.

It seems a bit narrow minded to only fund STEM subjects

But wait - fund them with what? Oh yes, that £350 million that doesn't exist, but is being promoted as the source as funding for all the wonderful stuff Brexit has promised

It may not be £350m, but is around £150m a week, c£8bn a year or over 10% of UK spending and around 40% of the current deficit.
Lots of EU populations dislike the EU, but the political elites support it (find myself sounding like Claig)
Most of the same people pushing remain also supported the UK entering the Euro and claimed economic disaster if we left the ERM.
None of the pro-Euro camp forecast anything like what is happening in Greece and other troubled Euro countries.

I am not getting excited yet because I still think Remain will win. There are so many people with a vested interest in the EU gravy train.
People like the Kinnocks who apparently have made £10million £10,000,000! from their EU jobs.

"Former Labour leader Lord Kinnock has an EU pension of around £96,000 a year after his spell as Transport Commissioner in Brussels. His wife, former Euro-MP Baroness Kinnock, receives a £67,000 EU pension.

This of course is in addition to the Kinnocks’ four OTHER pensions amounting in all to around £250,000 per annum. This pension income does not include any from the some £10,000,000 amassed in salaries, perks and allowances while actually “working” for the EU.

eurevealed.wordpress.com/2015/06/21/the-eu-gravy-train-rolls-on-and-on/

Interesting question. If we leave the EU will we still have to contribute to the Kinnock's mahoosive pensions?

leaving is so stupid- we will have all the bad and no influence because we will still need to trade with EU, still have free movement of labour, still have TTIP, and have none of the influence on EU policy that we have now, no EU subsidies. The EU emebership fee we will save by leaving will not go to the NHS, Farmers etc, but disappear into government coffers. The right wing will rule. Boris will be the next prime minister.
Stop being so short sighted- all of you who think that immigration is s scurge and that leaving RU will change anything really have it wrong.

our problems are with our Tory government NOT with the EU

'It seems a bit narrow minded to only fund STEM subjects'

We have limited money. Do you want us to subsidise the BBC even more than we do now, so that they can buy more bling, blow it on more jliies to Glastonbury in taxis, increase Chris Heavens' salary to shout at us on Top Gear and give more money to people who go by the moniker of "Wossy".

Enough is enough. I think STEM has to come first.

Why do some people think that withdrawal from the EU means Tory rule forever? Are we also voting to abolish elections?

Anyone who actually truly believes that men and women are paid equally in the private sector with notoriously secretive salaries needs their heads testing.

So if there is a leave vote, we can expect our creative industries and arts and humanities research to crumble?

'So if there is a leave vote, we can expect our creative industries and arts and humanities research to crumble?'

No, but the BBC won't be getting any more money from the EU and will have to cut its cloth accordingly. A few of the patronising presenters may have to take a salary cut.

Can I ask (as I have looked but can't find an answer) why would we lose equal pay, if we leave?

Surely we would only lose it if the government decides to get rid of it. Wether it was brought in by the EU or not, we can keep it.

As an aside, I watched. The debate the other night and the remain representatives were awful and certainly didn't help sway my vote to remain. I wonder if this is why polls are swinging towards leave.

Why do some people think that withdrawal from the EU means Tory rule forever? confused Are we also voting to abolish elections?

hildur - I've been wondering that.

I'm not excited, I'm really fucking nervous and desperately worried about the world that my children will inherit with a fractured, fractious angry Europe on the doorstep.

Still, it will be worth it to reduce EU immigration from about 2 per cent of present population to, well, who knows? And to be "sovereign." As Amber Rudd said the other evening, "a lone man on his own island is sovereign." But she was probably just being "shrill."

joy many labour mps disagree with you ( the ones actually in touch with the working class electorate that is, and not as Andy Burnham said the Hampstead/Highgate crowd)

Frank Field :“many of the social rights, which are trumpeted about as European, were ones which we actually took into Europe. It’s not that in fact somehow workers in this country were bereft of rights until we joined the European Union.”

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-brexit-vote-leave-gisela-stuart-european-union-a6927761.html

Gisela Stuart _Tory ministers must take a large part of the blame, but there is also another cause of this crisis.

We should remember just how difficult the European Union makes it for Britain to intervene for the sake of jobs and communities under threat.
By giving away our ability to decide our own trade policy to the EU, we lost the right, under the World Trade Organisation’s rules, to apply anti-dumping measures against cheap imports.
But it’s not just trade. Any programme of assistance, even in an emergency, is subject to an approval process from the unelected European Commission.

Mr Mann

He wrote: "It is not sustainable to have 300,000 new people added to the population every year. It has created two kinds of people in this country: the people who gain from this and the people who lose out."

Bolsover MP Mr Skinner told the Morning Star he did not believe progressive reform of the EU could be achieved.

I have to say if I was a tribal Labour vote I would be worried they will not be in power for a very long time too, but thats nothing to do with votes, structures or anything else except, the basic fact they have lost touch with their roots.

the world that my children will inherit with a fractured, fractious angry Europe on the doorstep

so you want closer ties with this fractured angry EU?

We are not alone on our sovereign island we have one of the most integrated multi cultural societies on the planet.