To ask if you think we will stay or go?

[TheoriginalLEM]

sorry its the EU.

i don't know that much but my gut feeling is we should stay.

however i think we will leave because strength of feeling seems to lay with the leavers wheras i think stayers might beless likely to vote or be in the not that fussed camp.

I just think we are too small a country to cut ourselves off from our neighbours.

The UK has the world's fifth largest economy. We'll still be able to trade and collaborate with other European countries, as politicial union isn't necessary for those things. We'll also be able to make our own trade deals around the world, which the EU currently doesn't allow.

The "remain" side seem to think Britain is too insignificant to exist by itself. That underestimates the strength and capability in Great Britain by a long way. The EU is inward-looking, secretive and propped up by the scaffolding of countries like ours that would do best independently.

If the vote goes for Leave I think I'll stop listening to the News for several months at least. The news is depressing enough already, without having to listen to the Brexiters face up to the giant mess they'll have to sort out. The idea of Boris Johnson being PM also makes me want to retch.

Hmmm... healthy choice might be to stop listening to News now, really!!

Being honest I haven't even seriously contemplated that the leave camp might win

Given the fact that the British people have consistently voted for the status quo in the past three referendums I can think of, I believe we will vote to stay in.

I am still trying to work out if that is actually the best solution - for us and for Europe! Given the fact we are the awkward squad, I do wonder if some of the french/german negotiators would be secretly relieved if we left.

I'm another one who's irritated by the assumption that Britain needs the EU to survive. We must stop underestimating ourselves. We have always been a tiny country, but we have also been an incredibly, astonishingly powerful country, who up until the last war was almost 90% self-sufficient in terms of food production, etc.

We really need to get our confidence up. The EU needs us - Britain, GREAT Britain, FFS! - more than we need them.

We are a magnificent country. We can be powerful on our own. We are not a drop in the ocean. We are wonderful.

exits to the strains of Land of Hope and Glory

I'm not sure that Boris or Osborne would become PM. If there was a new Tory leader I think Liam Fox would do a great job, or perhaps Daniel Hannan. Even Michael Gove would be OK compared to Boris/Osborne/Cameron!

And of course, it may well not be a Conservative government next time. I think a lot of people will have voted for them last time as they were the only party offering a referendum on the EU. It doesn't mean they're permanent supporters of the Tories.

I like Europe but not the EU.The issue with the EU is the forcing of countries to operate under common practices which is just unrealistic.The EU has attempted to integrate Europe too quickly and had the plan been to integrate over the next generation it would have got more buy in.

If the UK votes to stay in then the EU will continue with integration which is not going to benefit the UK long term.The 5 presidents report makes this very clear, Google and read.

Also I understood that industries were carved up by I.e, France agriculture, Germany Manufacturing and UK financial services.This has descimated some sectors for the UK

I am finding this thread interesting but nothing has convinced me to vote 'stay'.
I am fearful of change but I think long term the UK will be better off out of the EU.
I don't think that trade will be massively affected by leaving, money makes the world go round not just EU members.
I think that if we leave we will be stronger in the long run.
As a pp said up thread, what's to stop us rejoining in the future ?

Ok was I think we will have to agree to disagree.

Indeed - in fact I thought we kind of had done.

I always vote for labour but used to live in Gove's seat and now am in some other safe Tory seat, I've not got a snowball's chance in hell of being heard, but hey ho.

You're a bit like me and my mention of our trading relations with Germany on this though - why do you keep harping on about it when -
a)It has zero relevance in the context of the EU. and
b)It's the one thing we are totally agreed on (FPtP is shit) but
c) You don't want to change anything.

Norway - survives outside the EU!

I was reading about farming in Norway today. A cosy description of a farm that would not exist had they joined the EU. The farm needs subsidies and the EU wouldn't have allowed the government to give the farm the money it needs.

It would have been deemed un fair advantage.

How wonderful Norway can choose to support its own farmers, without EU legislation strangling it.

I think a lot of people will have voted for them last time as they were the only party offering a referendum on the EU

Without a doubt.

Given the fact we are the awkward squad, I do wonder if some of the french/german negotiators would be secretly relieved if we left

Perhaps.

I read interesting article about the American ambassadors in UK. Their argument for us staying in, was that we bring so much to every party. Incredible intelligence ( MI6 etc), diplomacy skills, innovation and so on and so on. rather than feeling WE would be weak and flounder, rather that we are strong and we strengthen all the organizations we are a part of, including the EU.

I think Cameron will probably scare sufficient sheeple into voting REMAIN

But it will be a pyrrhic victory as many only voted Tory a the last general election to secure this referendum and will never vote Tory again after Cameron's ludicrous claims and behaviour.

In fact I will go further and actively support any party that may overthrow the Tories - I detest them.

.. And there You have It Folks.
The Brexiters think that people who might want to vote Remain are "Sheeple".
Yes, given that level of respect, wouldn't it be wonderful if the Brexiters won.
Woohoo, Springing. With an attitude like that, are you sure you aren't a secret agent for the Remain camp?

none of this is going to matter soon. we have taken out eye off the ball - world war 3 anyone? it's just a question of who starts it really isnt it.

. And there You have It Folks.
The Brexiters think that people who might want to vote Remain are "Sheeple".

Nice try - FAIL.

You have misquoted me - probably deliberately. I said scare sufficient sheeple which is not the same as calling all Remain voters sheeple.

Yes, given that level of respect, wouldn't it be wonderful if the Brexiters won.

You are the one calling Remain voters sheeple - not me,

Woohoo, Springing. With an attitude like that, are you sure you aren't a secret agent for the Remain camp?

No - you are just desperate and displaying a woeful lack of comprehension.

I'm personally getting really sick of all the unfounded scaremongering. Its actually doing my head in on both sides but especially the remain campaign.

At this moment in time I'm leaning more towards exit.

The truth is, it's impossible to know what will be better for the UK. The Remainers don't know, and neither do the Leavers. The referendum is asking us to predict the future, and nobody can.

My best guess/gut feeling is to leave. We were powerful and successful before the EU, I see no reason why we won't be afterwards. It feels safer to leave (despite initial disruption), because we will be in a more democratic position afterwards.

I really don't understand why Cameron is campaigning so maniacally to stay. It makes me suspicious.

But it will be a pyrrhic victory as many only voted Tory a the last general election to secure this referendum and will never vote Tory again after Cameron's ludicrous claims and behaviour.

There isn't a single shred of evidence for that whatsoever. Every single poll has shown Europe was way down people's list of priorities when deciding how to vote on the general election, let alone the referendum. The EU obsesses a comparatively small number of people (like you) but in the course of a general election it is of marginal importance.

I'm still trying to get my head around the idea of Michael Gove as PM. While not vomiting. Jeez.

The EU isn't an oasis of calm, it's in a state of flux itself. The looming Greek crisis with their debt repayments they can't meet, the other Southern European countries also struggling under the yoke of the Euro, the MENA migrant crisis and Turkey holding all the cards - one of the main reasons I want Out is all this, and more, to get out of this crazy alliance that's just lurching from one crisis to another.

My gut says we should leave but I am nervous of the immediate aftermath and the recession it will cause. I know in the long term things will be much better, but the short term may well be difficult and I am just not sure the country is ready to weather that again so soon after the last awful recession.

I think lots of people want to vote out, but when it comes to it they will vote to stay in because better the devil you know.

I absolutely DREAD to think what will happen if we stay in, and Turkey gets the right of free movement. On radio 2 yesterday Jeremy vine had a representative from every European country there saying why they thought we should stay. One woman said something along the lines of 'this is a lovely big party where we are all getting along great and sharing what we have and the UK wants to leave the party, I don't understand it.'

My immediate gut response was to shout at the radio 'Well that's because we are the long-suffering hosts and we are paying for all the food and booze and getting fuck all out of it ourselves! You are having loads of fun but actually we aren't having any and we are tired and want to go to bed now!'

My immediate gut response was to shout at the radio 'Well that's because we are the long-suffering hosts and we are paying for all the food and booze and getting fuck all out of it ourselves! You are having loads of fun but actually we aren't having any and we are tired and want to go to bed now!'

SUPERB analogy!!!!!

Please have the courage of your convictions and vote Out, MardleBum

The UK will do so much better outside of this failing club, we'll be able to spend the millions currently sent to the EU, we'll be able to control immigration and therefore plan properly rather than being forced to react to circumstances, and trade will still continue - capitalism always wins.

This could well be the UK people's ONLY chance to vote out. It's not like we get a referendum every 10 years, so we can just wait till the next one. This is our only chance.

So if you think we should leave, this is the ONE opportunity you'll ever have to say that.

I'm also nervous that things immediately afterwards might be a bit unstable. But that's a risk we also have by staying IN. We don't know if TTIP will go through, we don't know if Turkey will join, we don't know anything! So it's actually safer to vote out. At least that way, we might be unstable BUT we will also be able to control who's leading our country, in the general elections.

It feels so much safer to vote out. And again, this is our ONLY chance to have a say. If we vote to stay, we have to assume that we are voting to stay forever.

I'm voting out because it's not just my vote, it's effectively my kids' votes too. They won't get a say.