To ask if you think we will stay or go?

[TheoriginalLEM]

sorry its the EU.

i don't know that much but my gut feeling is we should stay.

however i think we will leave because strength of feeling seems to lay with the leavers wheras i think stayers might beless likely to vote or be in the not that fussed camp.

It would be a different story if we sold much more to the EU than we buy - but as things stand, most of the major EU countries have much more to lose in lost sales to the UK than we do in potentially lost exports. Of course, they could put up stupid barriers to spite us, but who is going to buy all those right hand drive BMWs?

I disagree. It isn't a question of if Turkey will become a member, only when.

The 'ever closer union' aspect of remaining in the EU concerns me. This was meant to be purely an economic union, but we are in danger of moving ever closer to a federal state of Europe.

Ok Grimsby Telegraph link, if you prefer

[[http://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/Dutch-ship-lands-23-English-fish-quota/story-24185007-detail/story.html]

Are you doubting the truth of this BTW?

I didn't think anyone was suggesting I was insular - just offering some background so it's clear I'm not some "disgusted of Tunbridge Wells" with no experience of EU business.

Boiing you make some very good points, particularly number 1.

That's an entirely fair point about the overall picuture, and I don't know the answer. I wonder if anyone thinks the EU has been a good thing for the UK fishing industry, on the whole?

When I look at the "in" brigade there are quite a few individuals and organisations I respect. In the out brigade it is Wetherspoons and a bunch of people I really don't trust

Do you trust Cameron, Osborne and President Juncker of the EU Commission?

A leaked document has shown Cameron was thinking of persuading FTSE 500 businesses to put "Brexit" on their list of "risks", while his negotiations for a better deal with the EU were still going on and the referendum hadn't even been announced.

Watch: George Osborne grilled about his great deception over Brexit

Osborne's scaremongering figure of Brexit making every household worse off by 4,300 was reached by trickery. Osborne deliberately confused household income with GDP, to arrive at a higher figure. The Treasury's study suggested GDP would be 29 per cent bigger in 2030 if we leave the EU and and 37 per cent bigger if we remain, so this would just be a slower rise, not a fall. He then divided the difference in GDP by the number of households today, rather than the number of households in 2030, to make the figure even higher.

Some quotes from Juncker:

"When it becomes serious, you have to lie"

"I'm ready to be insulted as being insufficiently democratic, but I want to be serious ... I am for secret, dark debates"

"if it’s a Yes, we will say ‘on we go’, and if it’s a No we will say ‘we continue’”

“We decide on something, leave it lying around, and wait and see what happens. If no one kicks up a fuss, because most people don’t understand what has been decided, we continue step by step until there is no turning back.”

“Of course there will be transfers of sovereignty. But would I be intelligent to bring attention to that?”

"I notice with a certain sense of regret that far too many Europeans are returning to a regional and national mindset."

"I believe neither the French nor the Dutch really rejected the constitutional treaty."

"One shouldn't pursue the wrong policies just because one is afraid of not being reelected. Those who intend to govern have to take responsibility for their countries and for Europe as a whole. This means, if need be, that they have to pursue the right policies, even if many voters think they are the wrong ones."

can someone explain to me, very simply, the democracy issue?

On the surface it does indeed sound worrisome but surely these people didn't appoint themselves? maybe im niave.

Am still confused.

if i could turn back time and not join in the girst place then i would but as it stands i think im still on the remain side of the fence.

We are not exactly in affluent times, in fact its all a bit shit really. I can't see how untethering ourselves from the eu is a good idea just now.

For me, the democracy issue is twofold -

We get laws that no-one in the UK wants, no-one in the UK voted for and which harm our industry and commerce and we cannot override them in our local parliaments or assemblies.

The Commision is unelected and makes directives. There is zero accountability.

I just think we are too small a country to cut ourselves off from our neighbours. From a security and economic point of view my feeling is remaining would be a better option. Yes, I am sure we could still trade with EU countries even after voting to leave but I don't think it would be on very favourable terms. Holidays in Europe would involve long queues at passport control and I don't think we would be any more effective at manning our borders. There would be no way France would let us keep our border control over there as it is now. It could go either way though.

I don't think we can look at this issue in terms of "just now". I really feel that this is a once-in-a-generation opportunity to decide our own future. We won't be offered another referendum in 10 years' time - this is it. So we (somehow?!) have to decide/guess what will be best for the UK now, and in 5, 10, 50 years' time. It's impossible to know.

The EU will certainly change in the future, so how can we possibly know what we are deciding on? That's what feels best to ne about leaving - that we should at least then receive the best chance of choosing our own future. Because we do elect our government here.

Besides, if we left and it was RUBBISH, what would stop us from rejoining? The EU would will hardly ban us, would it. But if we stay, I feel we are tied in forever.

Again, that's just my feeling.

I realise my arguments don't make much sense.

Why would trade be on less favourable terms?

As a regular traveller to the EU and beyond I fail to see how it would make any difference to passport queues - in fact in my experience the non-eu queue is often shorter.

As far as the border with France is concerned - we did the border deal at the tunnel for simplicity, but moving the UK checks to our side would be easy.

why do we have to register to vote, i thought we would just get the poleing card through the post like the general elections.
can anyone tell me where to register

Emma -- if you're already registered to vote in the UK, you don't have to register again.

www.aboutmyvote.co.uk/upcoming-elections-and-referendums/eu-referendum

Motherofdragons - I don't disagree on the process. I say it's undemocratic when you have to obey laws that everyone you elected voted against, that your people don't want and didn't vote for and that are not in your national interests.

thanks whatsgoingoneh i was getting worried i'd missed the dead line

No problem! The deadline is June 7, so you could call your local council electoral office to double-check you're registered.

Oh, and I just read that we'll (registered voters) be getting our poll cards by May 25.

I really feel that this is a once-in-a-generation opportunity to decide our own future.

Definitely not only chance. Many Brexiters have promised not to STFU, to campaign for the next referendum, unless there is a resounding stay vote.

In my office, I think everyone wants to remain but almost no one but me gets a vote. One guy was saying he reckons it will be a Leave vote :( :( :(.

Ultimately - not saying they are the right or proper reasons but - big business and the city want in - anyone remember in this country when he haven't done exactly when they want? Expect massive increase in this sort of "information" soon as happened in Scotland.

Many big industrial concerns are telling their staff to vote in (Siemens, Jag/landrover, GE etc etc)