The only way to get the EU to take the UK seriously is to vote to leave

[SpringingIntoAction]

Cameron tells us repeatedly that he wants to remain in a reformed EU.

Many others across the political divides also acknowledge the need for the EU to reform itself.

Some say that's why we need to remain in the EU - to change it from within.

I think the EU's refusal to engage with Cameron's plea for his EU reforms and the failure of his 'special deal' to achieve anything like the changes he originally said he wanted, show the EU is unwilling/incapable of reform.

I think the only way to get the EU to start taking our demands for reform seriously is to vote to leave.

They need to start imagining what the EU would be like without one of its largest funders - the UK. We do that by voting to leave.

How exactly will leaving the EU protect the NHS rom privatisation? The best way to stop that would have been to not elect the Tories. I guess having this referendum was more important than saving the NHS then.

Buttered claims to be studying for a Masters in EU law.

Have you ever seen anyone who is studying for a Masters spend as much time on social media as Buttered does?

Buttered, you will notice, spends a lot of her time moaning about poor, simple, little me. So much so I almost feel sorry for myself

For someone who is as dim as I am I do take up a remarkable amount of Buttered's time.

And that makes me happy. Very happy

Because I only come on here when I am not doing my missionary work.

So, like the doodlebugs in WW2 that went silent before they fell to devastating effect, when I am not on this board, when I am silent, Buttered can be certain I am out there converting the unenlightened.

And I find that thought quite delicious

The next general election is in 2020 at the latest.

The latest EU referendum is..............?

Obviously I meant

The next EU referendum after this one is.......................

Will it be another 41 years?

Spring, I'm not on here all day every day, and I post in a couple of these threads, not all of them.

I did once post a very long fact-based thread (which I wrote on the train), using the knowledge I have gained through doing my masters degree for the benefit of posters here. Other people pay good money for that knowledge. You were unable to refute any of the points I made. The only part you even acknowledged was a joke I made about food security, which you took literally even though I clearly labelled it "this is a joke" for your benefit.

For you, spreading inaccurate information does seem to be a full-time job though.

qwghlm.co.uk : bec

Loving the Daily Mail-o-matic headline generator posted on p1. First click I got:

"WILL THE EURO MOLEST YOUR CHILDREN?"

More Dailymailomaticisms...

HAS FEMINISM RIPPED OFF BRITAIN'S FARMERS?

WILL BRUSSELS CHEAT BRITAIN'S SWANS?

COULD THE GERMANS TURN BRITISH JUSTICE GAY?

Spring, I'm not on here all day every day, and I post in a couple of these threads, not all of them.

Lol

Shall we count them?

The first stage in getting help is to admit you have a problem grin]

I did once post a very long fact-based thread (which I wrote on the train), using the knowledge I have gained through doing my masters degree for the benefit of posters here.

Yes, Buttered. I remember that one. It nearly killed me. I was drinking coffee as I was reading it and i laughed so much it came out my nose.

Other people pay good money for that knowledge.

Shameful.

You were unable to refute any of the points I made.

I refuted the whole thing - it was nonsense.

The only part you even acknowledged was a joke I made about food security, which you took literally even though I clearly labelled it "this is a joke" for your benefit.

You mean the bit when you warned of food rationing and suggested we found an old person to ask how bad food rationing was. That was the bit when I did actually PMSL. But I am old and wise and these things happen when you are laughing uncontrollably.

Talking of jokes - have you worked out the Marx joke yet?

For you, spreading inaccurate information does seem to be a full-time job though

Information dissemination keeps me busy - countering your propaganda.

So, you have a choice Buttered.

You can play nicely - like I would like to do

Or you can carry on chucking personal abuse at me (and some of the other people who are thinking of voting out) on every thread and force me to return your favour.

Your call. I can do either .

Back to the accusations of "personal abuse", I see. How tiresome. Sorry for not being more respectful of your right to post utter nonsense for 16 hours per day.

The thing is, the UK will have LEFT though. The other members of the EU are sick to death of the UK's behaviour, and won't be lying down begging for the UK to return to a reformed EU.

The surest way to see the NHS privatised is to stick with a Tory government. Losing Scotland because they want to stay in the EU is a great way to start the process of permanent Tory rule.

The EU injects just a little bit of sanity into the hell that is Tory rule.

Back to the accusations of "personal abuse", I see.

Let's call it bullying then. Persistent unwanted attention.

How tiresome.

I'd say pathetic. It makes you look pathetic.

Sorry for not being more respectful of your right to post utter nonsense for 16 hours per day.

That's OK. Freedom of expression is alien to most of you EU fanatics.

How wrong you are, Spring. You can say whatever you like. But if you post complete rubbish, you can expect to be called out on it by people who know better. Now I realise you have skin thicker than alligator hide and it will make no difference to your absolute conviction that you are right, but other people are reading these threads, potentially trying to make their minds up which way to vote, and I don't think the nonsense you post should be allowed to go unchallenged. That's all.

The thing is, the UK will have LEFT though. The other members of the EU are sick to death of the UK's behaviour, and won't be lying down begging for the UK to return to a reformed EU.

You're quite right. Take your £350million a week that you give us and clear off - we will prepare for the accession of the poorest countries in Europe without you - they will say gleefully.

The surest way to see the NHS privatised is to stick with a Tory government.

Yes, because the NHS is elastic and can cope with the demands of the 550 EU citizens who have a right to come here and use it and the NHS will also cope with the 4.29 million Croatians in 2018, and the 75 million Turks and the Macedonians....For lo, the NHS is an infinite unbounded resource.
Until the EU gets around to harmonising it out of existence.

Losing Scotland because they want to stay in the EU is a great way to start the process of permanent Tory rule.

You honestly think the Scots are going to put their hands in their pockets to pay the Common Agricultural Policy subsidies to Albanian, Macedonian, Bosnian farmers? Not a hope. I'd love to see Sturgeon sell that one to your average Glaswegian.

The EU injects just a little bit of sanity into the hell that is Tory rule.

What a defeatist attitude. The EU will also bind the hands of St Jeremey of Corbyn if we are ever daft enough to elect him.

How wrong you are, Spring. You can say whatever you like. But if you post complete rubbish, you can expect to be called out on it by people who know better.

Now I realise you have skin thicker than alligator hide and it will make no difference to your absolute conviction that you are right, but other people are reading these threads, potentially trying to make their minds up which way to vote, and I don't think the nonsense you post should be allowed to go unchallenged. That's all

Should have thought about that before you started your taunts. It doesn't look good for you Buttered when you start bullying someone who is determined not to react to your abuse. Hectoring people is so inelegant.

So you think electing Corbyn would be "daft", but you also claim to care about protecting the NHS. That makes total sense.

So you think electing Corbyn would be "daft", but you also claim to care about protecting the NHS. That makes total sense

Ahhhhh You're a Corbynista!!!!. That explains a lot.

It's a generational thing.

You look at Corbyn and see St Jeremy of Corbyn

We look at Corbyn and it reminds us of Harold Steptoe's dad

The EU injects just a little bit of sanity into the hell that is Tory rule.

Sometimes it seems that the Remain side think the Tories are permanently in charge of the UK - they aren't.

The UK government has changed regularly over the past century. Our democratic elections are a maximum of 5 years apart. We had a Labour government a few years ago. We can vote the Tories out.

We can't vote out the EU.

Are you drunk? I'm not sure what else could explain your mad posting style.

In answer to your question, no, I'm not a "Corbynista". But I recognise that we have an extremely unrepresentative two-party political system, where our only two real choices are the party led by Jeremy Corbyn, and the party that wants to privatise the NHS.

For anyone aged under 24, the only government they've known in their adult life is the Tories.

Of course, the contest in the UK is primarily between Conservative and Labour parties with the Lib Dems, Greens and UKIP getting smaller shares of the vote.

The alternative to the Tories is one of the more sensible of the above parties, not the EU.

buttered... But have things improved financially since being in the EU? Like I said, there have been moments of depression (I mean I guess you can say we are in a financial depression now).

The point I'm trying to make is: if we leave the EU, we can spend the money that we send everyday (we're talking millions here) on our own country. That would improve our economy, we'd have more money for housing (which would help with homelessness and poverty), healthcare, education, businesses etc.

I don't know about you but I would love to live in a better Britain (also if I ever was to have children, I would love for them to live in a better Britain too).

As people have mentioned, the rest of the EU doesn't like us for various reasons including our relationship with America. You just have to look at the Eurovision Contest for example!

Fyi, the post I read was from a respected historian who happens to be one of my university lecturers so I trust what they're saying. It wasn't a randomer trying to make a point by their opinions!

Proportional representation is certainly on the political agenda in the UK.

Electoral reform: Labour, SNP, Ukip and Lib Dems to campaign for proportional representation

"Senior Labour backbenchers have begun talks with Liberal Democrat, Green and Ukip MPs to set up a new cross party campaign to bring about proportional representation (PR) in general elections."

"The former shadow Business Secretary Chuka Umunna, along with the former shadow Transport Minister Jonathan Reynolds, called for their party to ditch its opposition to PR and align with other parties to support electoral reform."

"They have set up an All Party Group in Parliament to push for the reform, which they said would help to restore the public’s trust in politics."

Are you drunk? I'm not sure what else could explain your mad posting style.

You tell me when to post
You tell me what thredas a I can post
You tell me what I should post
You tell me to change my posting style

Beware - REMAINers are rather intolerant. Humourless even. Must be an EU thing

But I recognise that we have an extremely unrepresentative two-party political system, where our only two real choices are the party led by Jeremy Corbyn, and the party that wants to privatise the NHS

And that's why you are voting for Cameron's recommendation to stay in the EU, because he will privatise the NHS - with the help of the EU's TTIP.

That makes sense

Did you have an afternoon off when your school did the critical thinking thing?

At least i shall never have to tell my children that I voted for Cameron.