How will you vote in the EU referendum-Leave or Stay?

[BritBrit]

How will you be voting? Can admin add a poll?

I have some questions-
Can anyone tell me whether the Brexit camp have said anything about what would replace European human rights? or the much needed European subsidies for farmers (i presume not a lot and that's why the NFU want to remain)? and the EHIC for anyone taken ill on holiday (without which i would have been in serious serious trouble in the past)..

Jellykat:

In theory, human rights are separate from EU law and shouldn't be affected.

As for farmers' subsidies and EHIC, no one knows. The farming minister says farming subsidies would be maintained, but it's not his call. Other people on the leave side have promised to spend all the money we currently send to the EU on the NHS.

Even if we assume that leaving the EU would not have a negative effect on our economy and we would have this huge amount of money to spend on what we choose (which I think is unlikely, tbh), there is no guarantee what it would be spent on. The leave campaign seem to have already spent it several times over.

Ah.. You see i'm not clued up on things like country trade deals etc, but i am concerned about questions like those, and that is what makes me think we should stay.
I also feel that we are such a small country, is it not arrogant of us to think we can survive and compete by ourselves in the world?

JellyKat

^I have some questions-
Can anyone tell me whether the Brexit camp have said anything about what would replace European human rights?^

The European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) is completely separate to the EU. We can leave the EU and will still belong to the ECHR. So the LEAVE side has no view on it because it's not affected by us leaving the EU.

or the much needed European subsidies for farmers (i presume not a lot and that's why the NFU want to remain)?

This is a link to a forum in which you can hear George Eustace the Farming Minister say that he thinks the UK will continue to provide farm subsidies after we've left the EU. (2nd post in the forum)

thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/george-eustace-and-subsidy-payments.117216/

Here's an article on what the Spectattor has to say about farm subsidies.

www.spectator.co.uk/2016/02/how-brexit-would-affect-british-farmers/

In many cases it's the landowners (not the farmers) who want to stay in the EU as they would be very unlikely to get the same amount in subsidies from a Westminster Government as they currently get from the EU just for owning (not 'farming' the land).

and the EHIC for anyone taken ill on holiday (without which i would have been in serious serious trouble in the past).

The European Health Insurance Card (EHIC) is a reciprocal health agreement between the UK and a multitude of other countries worldwide, not just European countries or EU countries.. It is not an EU initiative so there's no reason why it should cease if we left the EU. We sent £647 million to foreign countries in one year to pay for our Uk patients treatment abroad. In return we claimed back £67 million from other countries for treating their citizens.

Sometimes the 'E' just = European. It doesn't always mean 'EU" which is not Europe.

George Eustace isn't going to be in charge of the budget post Brexit. He's not in a position to promise the farmers anything.

JellyKat

I also feel that we are such a small country, is it not arrogant of us to think we can survive and compete by ourselves in the world?

No. The Governmet wants us to think we are weak and insignificant so we stay in the EU.

In reality we are te5th largest economy inthe world.

There are around 180 countries in the world.

There are 28 countries in the EU.

That means there are at leat 152 countries outside the EU and many are a lot smaller and a lot poorer than the Uk - which is the 5th largest economy in the world.

But we are not allowed to make our own trade deals with all those other countries in the world because the EU stops us doing so.

That's why I feel we need to leave the EU, which is declining in trade, and start builidng up our own trade deals with countries throughout the world (instead of sticking to 27 countries in the EU)..

Jellykat, I share your concerns.

George Eustace isn't going to be in charge of the budget post Brexit. He's not in a position to promise the farmers anything.

Should we

A) send millions of £ of UK tax payers money to the EU, so they can take their %, before sending that same money back to UK farmers in farm subsidies

or

B) subsidise our own British farmers directly (thus cutting out the middle man and saving time and effort and a lot of computer systems).

I know - let's go for B)

What we should do and what we would do are not the same thing, Spring. If we stay in the EU, we know farmers will continue to get their subsidies. If we leave the EU, we can't guarantee that we will have the amount of money the leave campaign are claiming we will, and even if we do, there is no guarantee it would be spent on farmers and universities and not, for example, cutting taxes for the rich.

PS - Hovercraft, check your PMs.

Or indeed that tax revenues will be the same so we can afford to do it.

Thank you Springing, George Eustace isn't making any promises in that link, and when you read the comments underneath, it seems farmers aren't impressed by what he says.

I understand what you're saying about trade, but i live near Port Talbot, we couldn't compete with our Steel. From my point of view there are so many cheap imports from other countries, how can we compete in order to build our own trade deals?

Yes, I do thank you.

The U-turn on the deal made is a perfect illustration of how the EU bends the rules to suit and could well do the same when it come to our opt-out concessions agreed with Cameron.

Erdogan is holding a gun to our heads. He says Democracy, freedom and the rule of law.... For us, these words have absolutely no value any longer. Sounds like he'll fit right in at the EU table.

Liberalising visa rules for Turkey, a Muslim country of 79 million people, a country where radical jihadism is rife is an open door for extremists. What possible risk could we have opening the EU doors to a country with a long and porous border with both Syria and Iraq?

Turkish-Kurdish violence is commonplace already in Germany and Erdogan has vowed to "strike Kurds everywhere" so I expect the violence to escalate once Turks can travel freely around the Schengen zone. We are importing conflict.

I am sure many Turks have UK in mind for their final destinations as they leave Turkey. They will be able to move freely to Calais, already a choke point. The No Borders lot will explode with excitement at the potential.

On Wednesday there will be two announcements form the EU Commission. One is thought to be the announcement of the end of the Dublin Regulations (that'll be another agreement reneged on, do remember that when you applaude Cameron's deal).

Of Turkey's landmass only 3% is in Europe so I am unsure why it is being admitted anyway. Perhaps someone could enlighten me.

based on wishful thinking and fantasy that sounds like Camerons deal.

I also feel that we are such a small country, is it not arrogant of us to think we can survive and compete by ourselves in the world?

Jellycat, nooo. We were a wonderfully prosperous country before we joined the EU and we will be again. The EU is struggling, it will fall like dominoes once we leave, the Schengen agreement is a disaster with nations busily erecting borders again, the Euro is almost moribund. Look at the state of Greece, Italy and Spain, youth unemployment is rife in nearly all member states. Once we leave, we can really flourish again. Honestly we can and we will.

Sorry to rush a reply, I've got to reput my ds to bed.

JellyKat

Farm subsidies

anewnatureblog.wordpress.com/2016/02/25/farm-subsidies-after-brexit-the-first-hints-from-farm-minister-eustice/

anewnatureblog.wordpress.com/2016/02/25/farm-subsidies-after-brexit-the-first-hints-from-farm-minister-eustice/

Cameron is not going to confirm that - to do so would undermine his project fear that keeps people guessing what will happen. But when you think of the number of Tory land and farm owners (including his own father-in-law) it's a safe bet that subsidies will continue.

You also need to wonder what will happen to farming subsidies when the EU enlarges and takes in may countries that are primarily rural and in which agriculture is their main industry. You need to ask yourself where the money will come from to fund the CAP for those poor rural farmers if you remain in the EU.

I understand what you're saying about trade, but i live near Port Talbot, we couldn't compete with our Steel. From my point of view there are so many cheap imports from other countries, how can we compete in order to build our own trade deals?

China is flooding the market with cheap steel. That's not a reason to ditch our own steelworks. Without steel we have no defence. The globalists will say - never mind, it's too expensive to produce steel in Wales - just buy it from somewhere else. Which is all very well in times of peace and when someone is willing to sell it to you and while you are able to physically transport it to your country. Those times may change.

People will want to trade with us because we are the 5th largest economy in the world. We are the largest investor in the USA. We have excellent links with the Commonwealth.

We have stuff that people want and they have stuff that we would and that = trade.

The Germans want to sell us cars. The French want to sell us agricultural produce. We have things to sell them. Our trade with the EU is already declining in favour of our increased trade with the rest of the world - the only problem is that while we're in the EU we cannot make our own trade deals with the rest of the world. we are trapped in the declining EU praying that they will sell us steel - or we are properly screwed.

The EU tried to introduce a measure which would have helped us protect our steel industry. We blocked it because we didn't want to damage our trading relationship with China. I think that tells us quite a lot about what the government's priorities might be like post Brexit. (Sucking up to China = high. Protecting the steel industry = low.)

This Government or any future UK Government can't protect its industries while they are prevented from doing so by being in the EU.

The EU is a sinking ship. Even it's President Junckers thinks so - that's why he wants to bind the EU countries even closer together. That's why there is no point staying unless we also want to join into political union.

So Cameron wants us in - but not part of the political union but still unable to make our own trade deals to enrich our economy. Cameron wants us to remain shackled to the EU'd dead corpse by trying to frighten us into be too scared to leave.

It doesn't work.

A prisoner can be well fed, well clothed and entertained - but if you left that prison door open for one moment, he would be gone - in a flash.

Actually we scuppered the EU's attempts to protect the European steel industry as a whole. But by all means don't let the facts get in the way of your opinions.

Actually we scuppered the EU's attempts to protect the European steel industry as a whole. But by all means don't let the facts get in the way of your opinions

There's a certain snideness creeping back into your posts again Buttered.

Do try to play nicely.

Cameron did nothing to help protect the steel industry. However, if e Brexit we will have a new PM the next day - Michael Hesseltine that great EUphile said so.

Pots and kettles, Spring. Pots and kettles.

Anna the change to the Dublin regulations is to deal with an unprecedented situation, you can't go on asking Italy and Greece to be responsible for all of the refugees arriving it simply isn't viable. Its not exactly reneging on an agreement, but changing it to suit a very exceptional situation.

I agree with them changing it.

Lurked

Do you think the refugees wouldn't be coming without the EU?

They wouldn't get so far if there were proper borders and checks to filter out economic migrants versus genuine refugees. There also wouldn't be as many if Merkel hadn't invited a million to Germany. Then Tusk said we can't take anymore.
What a mess. The UK spends hundreds of millions of pounds, 900 as it happens, protecting refugees in their home country. More than other EU members spend and a much more sensible plan.

Bank customers lost savings in Cyprus, the Austria and other arrangements are very different. Misrepresentation again.

Not it is not misrepresentation. The EU marched in and pushed aside the leaders of the country and took over the situation. What a disgrace and abuse of their overbearing powers. How would you feel if Junkers came here, pushed aside Cameron and started meddling in our affairs resulting in nearly 50% of your savings being stolen from you?

The threat of terrorism has increased because of what is going on in Syria not becauseof the EU

Yes it has been exacerbated by the EU. If it was not possible for terrorists to walk into the EU unchecked and then move freely though the borders of EU counties, they would have a bit more of a problem propagating.

The Rapes in Sweeden? Not to do with the EU but with Sweedish government policy, if it is down to migrants they aren't EU ones

How do you know that?