How will you vote in the EU referendum-Leave or Stay?

[BritBrit]

How will you be voting? Can admin add a poll?

I'm trying to keep up with a fast moving thread. Some of us have family commitments and social lives and cant post in excess of 100 posts a day

Jellycat, you mentioned European subsidies for farmers i presume not a lot and that's why the NFU want to remain . I'm not sure the NFU are representing thier member's wishes. According to very recent research (last week) by Farmers Weekly magazine an overwhelming majority of farmers are in favour of Brexit and will vote Leave on 23 June. Of 577 farmers who completed the survey, 58% said they wanted to leave, while just 31% said they wanted the UK to remain in the trade bloc.

www.fwi.co.uk/news/exclusive-survey-reveals-farmers-back-eu-exit.htm?utm_content=buffercaddb&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Cameron is desperately courting the trade unions at the moment. He says "Am I talking to the trade unions about how to campaign and keep Britain in a reformed Europe? Yes I am." Cameron is doing this by making concessions to the unions in return for a cash commitment and open support of the Remain campaign. It reeks of 'cash for questions' chicanery.'

Lurked

So the EU gets to pick and choose what it thinks is important enough to renege on a regulation. So that sets the precedent for them to pick and choose which bits of Cameron's scant concessions we will get

Even more than undemocratic; the ability to unilaterally renege on an agreement. The prospect of being ruled by people like this should send a shudder up ones back.

So the EU gets to pick and choose what it thinks is important enough to renege on a regulation.

Even in the UK it isn't pragmatic to always apply rules regimentally. In legal theory for instance, one Parliament cannot bind another & no Act is irreversible. But in the case which determined joining the EEC was lawful the judge said theory must give way to practical politics eg Acts granting independence to the Dominions couldn't be reversed.

In any case with EU visa liberalisation there isn't regulation as such. There is a roadmap setting out the criteria then dialogue as you go along. That's very different from the deal David Cameron, made part of which is legally binding under international law.

Springing, please could you find, copy and paste one post from me that could accurately be described as one or more of 'bullying, goading , sneering behaviour and personal attacks'.

I am struggling to find one.

He says "Am I talking to the trade unions about how to campaign and keep Britain in a reformed Europe? Yes I am."

Still no real sign of the so-called "reformed Europe", is there? Might as well decide our own reforms by leaving the EU then

We've been in the EU for decades and haven't been able to reform it yet...

The UK is actually one of the most successful in getting its government objectives met by the EU, look up the analysis of you"55 times" fact and it explains it all for you, from an independent source.

LEAVE.

So the visa-free travel for Turkey is going down well .

Millions of Turkish Kurds will be able to fly to Germany and claim asylum with a good chance of winning.

Germany knows this and this may be one of the reasons why it has decided to abandon The Dublin Regulations (claim asylum in first safe country rule) in favour of a “corrective fairness mechanism” (sounds like something out of Mao's China). Using this mechanism, asylum seekers will be shared out among EU states. Countries refusing to accept there quota will be fined “a solidarity contribution” (Mao's China again) of €250,000 (£198,000) per asylum applicant. That's a lot of tax payers money going in fines.

Vote out or we will become further entrenched in this chaos. It will break us.

I think the Germans are seeking "corrective fairness" because they have accepted far more refugees than many others in the EU, as have Italy and Greece- who have to deal with it because of the Dublin regulations. There is no nefarious power at work here.

Germany has registered asylum seekers at a level of around 1 per cent of its population, fewer per capita than a number of smaller nations.

Vote out or we will become further entrenched in this chaos. It will break us

Anna

I think that is exactly what some people want.

Millions of Turkish Kurds will be able to fly to Germany and claim asylum with a good chance of winning.

They will be leap-frogging the 4,290,000 Croatians then as the Croatians don't get the right to come and live in the UK until 2018.

Buy to let landlords should take note.

Yes, because we'll obviously be able to reform the EU when we're not in it

No point being in it - it cannot reform itself. Dave tried and failed.

Time to say bye-bye.

Springing: Even if Turkish Kurds were to be granted political asylum in Germany that would not give them any right to move to UK. Freedom of movement regulations apply only to EU nationals. So again your post is misleading.

You are spending a lot of time posting incorrect information on these threads.

Your should realise that your posts reinforce the view that the most vociferous Brexiters either do not know what they are talking about or are deliberately stoking up fears about migration.

You are undermining your own case.

I also love how the entire populations of countries are going to come here! Its hyperbole on a massive scale.

I don't have a problem with the EU changing the Dublin Regulations, this is an unprecedented crisis and needs to be treated in a different way. Also they wouldn't be able to change the regulations unless a majority of countries agree to it.

Anyone granted asylum in Germany can then become a German citizen and move anywhere else in the EU. Yes, this process takes a few years (eight?) but it is already in place. So as well as handling the huge numbers from the EU that will be arriving in the next eight years, by 2024 the UK could have another influx of Kurds via Germany.

last I heard, for German citizenship you need to have been living in Germany legally for 8 years, have an independent income, no reliance on welfare or benefits, a decent grasp of basic German (a language certificate or test is required), and you also need to pass a citizenship test.

at which point, you've invested a lot in Germany and have a relatively stable life there. The UK is a wonderful place and everything, but the incentive to start everything over in a brand new country wouldn't be very high, I imagine.

German citizenship can only be acquired after years of residence, and passing the integration test requirements including sufficient knowledge of German. Germany has full employment, better workers rights and a better health care system than the UK. The educational system is geared up to giving all those young people who do not pursue an academic route proper apprenticeships and training leading to recognised qualifications. Far fewer McDonalds jobs. There are also large existing Turkish and Turkish Kurd populations in the country making it an attractive place for Turks to settle.

Turks would not move to UK in large numbers from Germany because it would not benefit them. There has been no significant migration by German citizens of Turkish descent to UK in the last few years. There will be none in the future.

Springing,

Oh look - a goady, bullying, sneering poster making a personal attack me. Hold a mirror to yourself

I'll ask you again: please find and quote for me one post from me that could accurately be described as one or more of 'bullying, goading, sneering behaviour and personal attacks'.

Also, please can you let me know where the personal attack is in my last post to you?

I am genuinely keen to get to the bottom of this. Thanks.

Thanks for that post drinkstoomuch, very well put.

I also love how the entire populations of countries are going to come here!

Where has that been said?

Anyone granted asylum in Germany can then become a German citizen and move anywhere else in the EU. Yes, this process takes a few years (eight?) but it is already in place.

Hundreds of thousands of asylum seekers who have arrived in Germany haven't registered with the authorities. German Interior Ministry spokesman Dr Harald Neymanns said some of the numbers could be due to delays in progressing applications, but also that in some cases refugees may have moved on to other EU countries.