The EU Referendum is nearly upon us.........23rd June.

[Daisyonthegreen]

I have been invited by other posters to start a new EU Referendum Thread as the EU thread "In out shake it all about what to vote in the EU referendum "is now closed.
Anyhow this vote is is pretty crucial for the good of the country and your family.
I make no secret of the fact I feel to vote to Leave is the best option.
On the "In out shake it all about,what to vote in the EU Referendum " Thread I posted many links and gave views on why I feel that way.
I feel we would flourish free of the beaucratic ,undemocratic organisation it has turned into.
A Trading block initially started up with 9 countries in the 1970s has become out of control,mammoth and unwieldy and frankly rather dangerous.
We need to wrest back control of our own country,our borders and our ability to broker our own Trade deals which the EU insists on doing for us.
Plus our own Judicial decisions.
We on leaving would still Trade with the EU,they need us more than we need them actually but the beauty of it we could be free to broker our own deals with the rest of the world on our terms.
In short we would flourish.
We can love/ like Europe but not be in the EU.

Helpful chap
Well quite.

what on earth does it matter who starts the thread... we're here to debate and disagree, otherwise what's the point

I actually feel sorry for the Remainiacs.

Led by Cameron and Corbyn. What a dream team.

I remember when Corbyn was a man of principle, ie, between 1975 and 2015. Gets one sniff of the EU gravy train and throws them out of the window.

He said today that he is favour of staying in so we can make it more democratic. If we leave we won't have to!

His stay rhetoric today mainly consisted of slagging off the Tories, his EU bedmates. Hopeless.

the Remainiacs

you don't get to complain about name-calling if you then turn around and do the exact same.

and I don't think you want to start comparing campaign leaders, because neither side is led by shining beacons of charisma and intelligence.

WTF? I thought this was a mn thread not a party political thread.

I was going to vote leave. These infiltrators make me want to vote stay.

Im a mum to a 3 year old, and i personally think that leaving would be the best thing for our country. If we stay in the EU i worry for myself and my son if we stay as i dont think that staying is a safe option for our country.

Well nothing could change my mind I have to say.I want Democracy returned to us here,to have our own Government we elect democratically in charge,at least we can vote them out.
With the EU they are just faceless beaureacrats.

Donna what is the issue of safety that you refer to? Why do you think you feel unsafe in the EU?

Vertigo

Tbf their has been a fair amount of 'infiltrating' on both 'sides' over the various threads.

CoolforKittyCats - genuinely curious, how do you know??

"With the EU they are just faceless beaureacrats."

Yes the democratically elected MEPs are faceless bureaucrats as are the democratically elected council of ministers.

If nothing can change your mind why bother to post?

I can see reasons for EU reform, and for how things could work better, but that is true of any institution. I think however we do benefit from being in the EU overall in terms of trade agreements, employment law, working time regulations etc.

The inability of the brexit crowd to suggest a viable alternative to the EEA which is not preferable to being within the EU, as well as the risks to our economy. The likley increased level of neo liberal economics without the EU and the effects on the ordinary worker then an its is definitely the preferable option to be in the EU.

Vertigo, it is mainly me, Daisy and Helpful on the Leave side. Why do you think any of us are infiltrators? I am genuinely puzzled.

I will repeat what and I and others have already said: MEPs are elected by voters in free and fair elections. These are based on proportional representation, which many would argue is more democratic than the first-past-the-post system used to elect British MPs.

You can contact local MEP just like you would your MP (I have done it and received a long and detailed reply to the issue I had raised).

European commissioners are appointed by the president of the Comission in consultation with the (elected!) prime ministers of member states. That is a process that could surely be made more transparent, but I don't think that anyone here is so naive to believe that UK ministerial appointments and cabinet re-shuffles do not involve a fair amount of horse trading.

i feel that in years to come this country wont be a safe place as we wont be a English run country, i was bought up and raised in England and i want that for my son, i don't want to be run by people that don't know our country

Former MI6 Chief is writing here,short and snappy article.
www.cityam.com/237514/eu-referendum-former-mi6-spy-chief-richard-dearlove-says-brexit-could-make-britain-safer

Donna. Lovely.

Now tell me Chalala: do I call that racism or xenophobia? I'll go with xenophobia as you said the term racism gets people annoyed but I'm very annoyed too when I hear people talking an 'English run country' / 'our country' / or 'people who don't know our country'.

Donna; you may be interested to look around you and see people of all nationalities happily living in what you call YOUR country, working, paying taxes, their friends being friends with your children, they look it after you when you go to the NHS, some of them teaching your children etc. This is very much MY country too thank you very much, it's the main country by far in which I have a stake as I've lived here for decades as have many many others.

Look around you. We don't make you unsafe. Views like yours are what makes us all unsafe.

I have been reading Corbyn's thoughts on reform of the EU. A lifelong Eurosceptic, desperate to avoid a party split, he aint very credible (although he did delete hundreds of his anti-EU speeches and articles from the internet so maybe he has rewritten history?).

Unelected and unaccountable Eurocrats will not allow reform. Anyone who seriously thinks they will needs a reality check.

Corbyn is claiming the NHS will be stronger if we stay in - has he read the TTIP agreement? The NHS may well be sold off to US corporations. Even if it is not sold off, having our wonderful health service open to 500 million people is simply unsustainable.

His suggestion of an EU-wide minimum wage - well how will that work? Dropping our minimum wage down further to match the rest of the EU wont work and I'm sure forcing all other 27 countries to match us will quickly push their economies over the edge.

Donnayh94 I'm one of the dreaded foreigners and I promise I'm pretty safe

Anna: What you call 'eurocrats' are not unelected. They are elected democratically as other posters mentioned in detail above

And the TTIP will be passed wholeheartedly by the Tories. What makes you think it's an EU thing?

Yes but the current heads of GCHQ and Euopol have both said that leaving the EU would makes us more vulnerable.

Dearlove has also been out of the job since since 2004.

" English run country, i was bought up and raised in England and i want that for my son, i don't want to be run by people that don't know our country."

For starters we aren't an English run country we are British and in your life time at least three governments have had majorities because of Scottish and Welsh MPs.

stilllovingmysleep, you cant wait to cry 'racist' can you? Do you not think women have every right to be concerned given the events in Cologne on NYE and given that Sweden is now known as the rape capital of the West due to the huge number of rapes by men of MENA origin?

Look around you. We don't make you unsafe. Views like yours are what makes us all unsafe. Tell that to one of the women who were raped on NYE.

"The NHS may well be sold off to US corporations. Even if it is not sold off, having our wonderful health service open to 500 million people is simply unsustainable."

Its not open to 500 million people, in fact immigrants from the EU are net fiscal contributors to the economy so put more in than they take out.

Who is project fear again?

Stillovingmysleep
Why can't you vote then if you have lived here for decades?

why do you ask daisy?
The reason is that I haven't dished out the 1,000£ for the uk citizenship although I've passed the (pretty funny) life in the uk test.