The EU Referendum is nearly upon us.........23rd June.

[Daisyonthegreen]

I have been invited by other posters to start a new EU Referendum Thread as the EU thread "In out shake it all about what to vote in the EU referendum "is now closed.
Anyhow this vote is is pretty crucial for the good of the country and your family.
I make no secret of the fact I feel to vote to Leave is the best option.
On the "In out shake it all about,what to vote in the EU Referendum " Thread I posted many links and gave views on why I feel that way.
I feel we would flourish free of the beaucratic ,undemocratic organisation it has turned into.
A Trading block initially started up with 9 countries in the 1970s has become out of control,mammoth and unwieldy and frankly rather dangerous.
We need to wrest back control of our own country,our borders and our ability to broker our own Trade deals which the EU insists on doing for us.
Plus our own Judicial decisions.
We on leaving would still Trade with the EU,they need us more than we need them actually but the beauty of it we could be free to broker our own deals with the rest of the world on our terms.
In short we would flourish.
We can love/ like Europe but not be in the EU.

"You cannot reassure me, that Eu will rise to the migrant challenge, its already failing in that in many respects."
I can reassure you that your worries about migrants to the UK are unfounded, that EU migrants contribute more than they take out.

"You cannot reassure me, its keeping terrorists out, we know - at least 5,000 are currently in Europe. "

Source please.

"You cannot reassure me, the borders are strong, there are leaks, riots along all outer EU borders. "

EU borders will be the same, in or out, people will get to Calais anyway, we already have border control there.

"You cannot reassure me, that all EU intel is strong to prevent attacks, we know its not. "

Source? Apart from Dearlove. Pretty sure the French are good anyway.

!You cannot reassure me the EU is a strong sound, economic club to be in, its floundering!!

Still the biggest single market in the world, one which we rely on massively as exporters. Tariffs on our goods will lead to less exports, less demand and job losses. Outside the EU we will struggle, our services (our biggest export) will suffer massively as our comparitive advantage will falter.

stepinto what on earth do you mean there are currently 5,000 terrorists in Europe?

Did the Guardian support Lenin, Stalin etc?

I didn't quote the Guardian, thanks, others have quouted the Mail. Thanks

Referendum is not nearly upon us. It's ruddy 2+ months away.
(BASHES AWAY AT KEYBOARD TO HIDE THREAD)

I just see a tank rolling over any arguments at all, whatever they are

Funny how perspective is everything. That's how I feel about many Brexit posters here. They make a claim, then a sound argument is made to refute the claim. And then... it's like nothing ever happened, they just make the same claim again 2 pages later.

I'm sure that's not how they see things, obviously. But that's what it feels like to me.

"You cannot reassure me, that Eu will rise to the migrant challenge, its already failing in that in many respects."

"I can reassure you that your worries about migrants to the UK are unfounded, that EU migrants contribute more than they take out"

Goodness, Yawn!

1. The migrants coming to the EU right now from Libya, from Turkey, from Syria!

2. NO you cannot reassure me on that front, I have lived, seen and witnessed, extreme violence, constant fighting and social problems, from many areas personally. They say a problem family costs this country two hundred thousand?
   And I know the trouble makers - were working under the radar and not paying into the economy. I appreciate a good many are - and again I know some of them - normal, hard working lovely families, but no you cannot reassure me, at all on migrants in the UK. Indeed you cannot even reassure me they were ever counted in or out and what the true number of people who live here will ever be,

Sorry, are you admitting you don't know about the Five Thousand Terrorists roaming Europe?

I can't believe it.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/isis-up-to-5000-jihadists-in-europe-after-returning-from-terror-training-camps-daesh-islamic-state-a6885961.html

Up to 5,000 jihadists are feared to be in Europe after returning from terrorist training camps, the head of Europol has said.

Rob Wainwright, director of the EU-wide law enforcement agency, predicted further attacks by Isis following the massacres in Paris that killed 130 people in November.

“Europe is currently facing its biggest terror threat in more than a decade,” he told Germany’s Neue Osnabrücker Zeitung newspaper.

Several of the Paris attackers slipped back into the continent by using fake documents to pose as refugees, travelling along the well-trodden route via Turkey, Greek islands and up through the Balkans, raising fears that Isis was using the crisis to traffic its fighters.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/isis-fighters-virtually-impossible-to-detect-as-group-continues-to-use-fake-passports-to-exploit-a6836376.html

It is “virtually impossible” for security officials to detect potential terrorists among refugees as Isis continues to use the refugee crisis to smuggle its fighters into Europe, an official has said.

The terrorist group is known to use fake Syrian and Iraqi passports to disguise its recruits as they enter the continent, often via Turkey and Greece.

All members of the terror cell who murdered 130 people are believed to have trained with Isis at its stronghold of Raqqa before making their way into Europe

The suspected ringleader, Abdelhamid Abaaoud, used Isis’ propaganda magazine to boast of his travels between Belgium and Syria “despite being chased after by so many intelligence agencies”, although the article did not specify the method.
Read more

I must admit, some posters stance on Europe has baffled me, but I guess if you know nothing of the crisis there at the moment, you would think its all fine and dandy, perhaps time for you to do some more reading round your subject?

Pretty vast area to be ignorant of - if you want to make informed decisions....

What does this have to do with Brexit? These people would get the exact same checks at the border before or after Brexit.

1. goodness yawn?

"The migrants coming to the EU right now from Libya, from Turkey, from Syria!"

Who aren't subject to freedom to movement, you're conflating with refugeees.Fairly basic and unfounded error. They are terrorists, in or out of the EU, it isn't going to stop. Conflating this with economic migration through freedom of movement is more "project fear" than anything the Bremain campaign could ever do.

As you said yourself: "
It is “virtually impossible” for security officials to detect potential terrorists among refugees as Isis continues to use the refugee crisis to smuggle its fighters into Europe, an official has said."

We accept 28,000 refugees a year over the last few years, not subject to EU law ( in fact more come from the commonwealth, including known terrorist training aresas)

So how many of these people are coming in on Polish, Romainian or to that matter Belgian passports? If so they'd get in anyway under any EEA type agreement!

Sorry, security is not an EU argument!

Even if they had EU passports, and even if there was no EEA type agreement... EU citizens would obviously still be free to come to the UK for holidays and short trips, likely without a visa too. So Brexit really doesn't really add any layer of protection.

I think I prefer to believe an ex MI6 Chief myself on security.

www.cityam.com/237514/eu-referendum-former-mi6-spy-chief-richard-dearlove-says-brexit-could-make-britain-safer

Stepintothelight
Some posters are feigning ignorance to suit their arguments.To vote to leave is the prudent option.

Of course you do cause he confirms your predujices

As said before the current heads of Europol and GCHQ disagree, which are as valid.

It's like Groundhog Day here. We've had this discussion about 5 times already. If you want to play the expert game, then I see your retired MI6 boss and I raise you a former head of the CIA, a head of Europol and a former Minister of counter-terrorism. Links posted about 3 times already in the previous thread.

Why don't you try answering the arguments instead?

"Some posters are feigning ignorance to suit their arguments"

So says:" I'm just a mum"

Daisy
All member states have to pas instruments into national statute once a directive is passed (directives in particular include a date to impliment-usually), that's the whole point of an EU directive!
The ECJ provides protection to all EU citizens weather it be a fight with your own government or an EU structure. It provides checks and balance across all member states. So your link isn't really news to anyone! Think about it, if rulings and instruments were not required to be passed into national law they wouldn't be effective. The EU isn't perfect but it has allowed my industry to thrive, afforded me legal and political protection and enshrined my basic rights. This is why I believe staying in the EU is so important.

something like 25% of the British electorate voted Conservative. The party who are now implementing policies not declared in their manifesto.

Where is the EU's manifesto? How can I have a say in the policies they implement?

The majority of MPs fairly elected were Conservatives. If there was a low turnout that's the fault of all those who didn't exercise their right (and responsibility IMO) to vote. The Tories received 36.9 per cent of the vote.

Thankfully, the Tories have kept their manifesto promise of an EU referendum

However, the Conservatives have failed on other manifesto promises, such as introducing a British Bill of Rights, to replace the Human Rights Act. From the article linked to above:

"The party acknowledges that the Human Rights Act contains a "laudable" set of the principles for a modern democratic nation and does not plan to introduce new basic rights, instead, its aim is to "restore common sense and tackle the misuse of the rights contained in the Convention".

Why would the EU have a manifesto? It's not a political party.

Itinerary
The best way to reform the abuses of the court's is to do so within the EU such that all states benefit. National governments fiddling with individual policies is a retrograde step.

Apologies for the apostrophe!

Question Time BBC
Good support for Brexit.
Dan Hannan Member of the European Parliament
,Baroness Jenny Jones Green Party
Dia Chakravarty Taxpayers Alliance all spoke well for Brexit.
All want Brexit.
Audience for Brexit very much so.

Dan Hannan again Daisy?

All of the audience?

Yes thats the way it seemed, not.

You post arguments that are rebutted easily, as do your brexit counterparts, but never try to make a reposite.

Critical thinking, economics or politics aren't your strong point are they?

But then you're "just a mum", if so stop making comments.

I think you're a paid Brexit campaigner. A bad one at that, but hey ho, amateur me middle aged can tackle you at any time.

"Where is the EU's manifesto? How can I have a say in the policies they implement?"

By voting in EU elections, in UK elections?" They tend to be the lowest turn out, there isn't a "manifesto" for parliament in the UK, but for policitcal parties. Even then they do stuff that is not on the manifesto, poor point, badly made.