In,out,shake it all about,the EU ,what's best to vote.

[Daisyonthegreen]

Nothing on here,or am I wrong,I'm a newbie so be patient with me.
Anyhow here goes it's the Referendum on the European Union on the 23 June this year.
I'm voting Leave.
How's about you guys?

Butter Muffin
Don't be derogatory ,it's not becoming.

Girlie?

I don't agree that money is more important than freedom.

Fair enough. But I think Brexit voters need to think carefully about which option would actually give Britain more freedom. It is a very strong possibility that a post-Brexit government would choose to stay in the EEA. In which case, Britain would still have to follow the rules, but would no longer have a say in what the rules are.

This is why I would like to see a statement about the EEA from both the In and Out campaigns. The EU referendum is almost meaningless without an attached EEA strategy, and it's impossible for voters to make an informed choice.

Haha! But I'm the one "snearing" (sic), apparently.

Speaking of modern history, I think the people who do not think the EU has contributed to the peace and stability we have enjoyed in Europe for the last 65 years or so have remarkably short memories. That was, of course, the idea. To tie us all together so closely from an economic point of view that we couldn't go to war with each other again.

There are walls in Paris which are still full of bullet holes from the Nazi occupation. I don't think they forget quite so easily on the continent.

Norway is in EEA and I have read commentary suggesting a sizeable number there are fed up of having to meet trading rules without any say in what those rules are. Before I get jumped on I know that there are plenty in Norway prepared to put up with it for all the benefits of being outside EU.

"the EU has contributed to the peace and stability we have enjoyed in Europe for the last 65 years"

Not in the way you state. Peace has been maintained deliberately, by agreement, because each subsequent leader of the various European countries has been cognisant of the long-range overview, for Europe which would take several generations.

I love your tinfoil hat, where did you get it?

If you put this put this type of remark out, you will get it back two-fold. Got it?

Cut the, you just called someone a twat to advance your argument. It doesn't advance whatever your position is.

Lavender.
If anyone comes on here sneering and insulting, i.e. tin hat, she/he will get it back. That is only fair, surely?
If you do not agree with the possibility I stated, fine, but don't suggest anything else.

Ok, but let's not pretend that the remainers on this thread are aggressive and abusive, whereas the Brexiters are all as good as gold, eh?

As far as I can recall, I haven't called anybody a twat or an idiot or "an empty vessel, devoid of all original thought", repeatedly made antagonistic jibes about Marx for no apparent reason, patronisingly referred to someone as "girlie" or repeatedly jeered that they must be "on gardening leave" when they have said they are on annual leave.

Anything I have said has been very mild by comparison. I might disagree with people's views, but I have tried very hard to refrain from any name-calling, despite being sorely tempted at times.

There are various things I could say involving pots and kettles, or glass houses and stones, but I probably don't need to labour the point.

I didn't suggest anything. I said don't call someone a twat if you want people to read what you have to say.

Buttered said "I love your tinfoil hat, where did you get it? to my post about Trump.

That post of yours is sneering and insulting, which it was meant to me. And if you want to take it further, it could be construed as Disablist language.
If you insult me, I'm going to insult you.

lavender, if you read the whole thread (and the other one) you will see repeated examples of the Brexiters being childish and insulting, and then accusing "#TeamLurked" of doing exactly that, and worse.

Apparently insults are only insulting when we say them.

Ok, but let's not pretend that the remainers on this thread are aggressive and abusive, whereas the Brexiters are all as good as gold, eh?

I am not aware of anyone saying that. It's of no importance to me. But I know that when I first encountered you on another thread, you were very polite though your fellow Remainers were like snarling junkyard dogs fromthe get-go.

"And if you want to take it further, it could be construed as Disablist language."

Seriously?!

Get a grip.

So ... not here for civilised debate about the referendum then. Oh, well. It was worth a try.

lavender:

^Spring:

"Now run along darlings, You're out of your league here playing with #TeamLurked. Have you tried the Fun and Games section. They discuss TOWIE on there."

butteredmuffin:

"You really are arguing like a bunch of ten year olds. I'm out."

Spring:

"Excellent

As we were saying Helpful and Daisy..."
^

It would appear that their idea of a civilised debate is one in which there is no one with an opposing point of view to spoil the fun.

I should not have come back to this thread.

Good luck with your studies, buttered (an earlier post mentioned studying).
I really want to hear the Brexit pov but I hear too much jingoistic hyperbole on TV and hoped to hear more reasoned stuff on here. I have an elderly relative who is undecided and I wanted to let them explore a range of views. All the Tory infighting is a distraction and Labour indifference and /or refusal to speak with other non - Labour Remainers is childish and stupid. I am old enough to remember the first referendum (as a child). It was one of the first things that got me interested in politics. I dread to think what kids and young voters are making of this one.

Oh dear the "you are insulting me" tribe are back.

Ironic that you purport Trump as the saviour from a world government when Trump is possibly the best example of the way the right wing now cast themselves in elections. The party of the working person working against a sneery liberal elite. and other insiders. Strangely those doing it Dave, Boris, and Trump himself are the ultimate insiders and once in power serve and protect the interests of a wealthy minority.

Thanks lavender

I think the people who do not think the EU has contributed to the peace and stability we have enjoyed in Europe for the last 65 years or so have remarkably short memories.

Not at all. It's NATO who have kept the peace, not the EU. And of course the European countries that aren't in the EU have also had peace and stability.

"Not at all. It's NATO who have kept the peace, not the EU."

I didn't say the EU is solely responsible for peace in Europe, but the idea that it has not made a significant contribution is laughable.

"And of course the European countries that aren't in the EU have also had peace and stability."

What, like the Balkans?

Like I said, people have short memories.

For Mums on here here is a link.NHS staff past and present ask the public to vote to Leave the EU on 23rd of June to save our National Health Service.
I will vote Leave.
www.express.co.uk/news/politics/660280/EU-referendum-Brexit-save-the-NHS-funding-letter-doctors-nurses-paramedics

What, like the Balkans?

Sorry, should have said some of the countries. Like Norway, Switzerland and Iceland, so being in the EU clearly wasn't necessary for them. The UK has far more in common with those countries than the Balkans.

I hear too much jingoistic hyperbole on TV and hoped to hear more reasoned stuff on here.

What programmes have you been watching? There are some balanced debates taking place on Newsnight, Question Time and so on.